Ep34: Being authentic and Gen Z in adland

Bloom North

NABS All Ears

NABS Managers’ Mindsets

NABS Speed Mentoring

NABS therapy referral

NABS Walk and Talk

Louise (00:01.482)
This week, my guest is Beth Sutherland. Beth is associate director of programmatic services at Essence MediaCom. Beth is also a notably rising influencer in adland. She’s vice president of women’s network Bloom North, the youngest to hold the role since the organisation’s launch in the region. Beth was also named this year as one of Campaign’s 30 Under 30.  

Beth is passionate about driving conversations around authenticity, wellbeing and personal growth. Having faced mental health challenges, Beth now uses her experiences to help mentor and support others in adland. She believes in living and leading with purpose and integrity, all of which makes Beth a beautifully on-brand guest for this particular podcast.  

Welcome Beth to the NABS podcast. How are you doing today?

Beth (00:51.854)
Hello, thank you. What an introduction. I’m good, thank you. How are you?

Louise (00:54.774)
Do you know what? I very rarely get asked that question in return. I’m very appreciative that you asked. I am fine. Thank you very much. Very happy to be chatting to you. We’ve been talking about this for quite a while, so it’s good to get cracking on it. So let’s dive straight in because you’ve got loads to say about mental wellness and..

Louise (01:17.204)
You’re very keen to open up about your experience as well. So tell us about the mental wellness challenge that you’ve had to face, and how you’ve worked and are working your way through that.

Beth (01:27.532)
Yeah, so I guess I started my career fresh out of uni. I was young, ambitious and honestly, I was a bit naive about the working world and how it actually functioned. Like so many people, I’ve just was going through the education system. I mean, I’ve always been a hard worker and I have worked extremely hard to get what I wanted during school, uni, college.

So I just sort of threw that same energy into my career. But I quickly worked out that the working world is vastly different to what the education system actually prepares you for. And to be honest with you, I really struggled with being honest and authentic to who I really was. I knew I just had this strong feeling of wanting to do well, but feeling really unsure of what the markers were for that.

In school and uni it’s easier to know when you’re doing well, because your grades are such a strong indicator of that. So I was super unsure of how I was going to understand that I was doing a good job and what would tell me that.  

So I sort of started to believe the best way to sort of determine your success in the workplace is being recognised, getting promoted, climbing that corporate ladder almost. So I started sort of looking at the women in the leadership positions, seeing what kind of people they were, and they were extremely bold, confident, unapologetically themselves. And I thought that’s exactly how I need to be to be able to succeed in this industry.  

And from there, I pushed hard. I volunteered for everything. I joined networks like Bloom North, which gave me a space to sort of teach me how to speak up, how to be confident, how to own a room. I changed jobs whenever I felt undervalued and in many ways it really worked. I guess I progressed quickly and I got noticed, and off the back of that, I was given some really incredible opportunities.

Beth (03:53.364)
The truth is the burnout that comes from that and the expectation that you put on yourself to sort of continue to consistently achieve success is difficult, and I think it took me getting to a point to sort of realise that that goalpost for success never ends. You achieve one thing and you want the next and there’s never actually been an opportunity where I stepped back.

and was grateful and happy for what I’d actually achieved and what I’d already done. And by achieving all of them things, I’ve sort of had to pause and take a moment to wonder if I’m actually living my life to my values and what’s important to me, or is it to someone else’s expectations or societal expectations.  

So it took a bit of a personal challenge for me earlier this year to realise I just needed to slow down, take a minute, and that’s when I decided to start therapy and it’s honestly been transformative for me.  

I think I’ve always been the one in my family and my friend group who’s the strong one. I always pushed through, handled everything on my own and for a long time going to therapy sort of felt like admitting weakness and felt to me like I couldn’t support myself properly, like I always felt like I was doing and walking into that therapy session for the first time.  

It was incredibly difficult and emotional for me, but what I have come to understand is that the strength in that situation was sort of taking that first leap and knowing when I was at a point where actually I did need some guidance and therapy’s really helped me to unpick who I am now, not just in my career, but as a person as a whole. And I’ve been able to understand that success just isn’t simply about the external achievements and then things really only matter if it aligns to who you are as a person and your personal values.

Louise (06:17.302)
So it sounds to me as though you have worked incredibly hard for a very, very long time. And what some people might describe as being on a bit of a treadmill with it all. And then you suddenly got to a point where you thought, I actually can’t do this anymore. So the personal challenge that you alluded to before that then took you to therapy, was that something specific that happened? Or was that a case of realising that you had burnout or stress or something like that as a result of having worked so hard for so long.

Beth (06:51.342)
Yeah, I guess it was a mix of everything, but I would primarily say that just knowing  I had worked so hard for quite a long time. I mean, I’ve been in the industry for nine years now and in comparison to some people that is nothing, then I guess like the first eight years of my career, I pushed, pushed, pushed, pushed, pushed.

Beth (07:21.356)
And then the start of this year, I remember just thinking, like, what, what is this for? What, what is all this for? And I just sat back and had to really think to myself, all these things you’ve achieved, like have you ever actually sat down and felt proud of yourself for it?  

And I think a lot of it, the difficult thing is, is to not feel like you are doing things for external validation or for because someone else has told you it’s the right thing to do. If you know what I mean. Yeah, I wouldn’t say it was one specific thing. think like accumulation of different things led me to a point of thinking what’s happening here.

Louise (08:17.896)
So as a result of having some therapy, and at this point, it’s a great time to shout out for NABS’ therapy referral service. So if you feel like you need someone to talk to, come to NABS and we can help put you in touch with someone. Now that you’ve had therapy, are you feeling like, I know what this is for now. Have you reframed what goals and success looks like to make it more authentic to you?

Beth (08:43.342)
Yeah, yeah, I mean it’s definitely still a work in progress and I’m having therapy every two weeks and I have been doing since and end of January, So it’s still a work in progress and I genuinely feel like it has been so rewarding for me that it is a process I will continue with for as long as I feel like I need it, and that may be for the rest of my life. 

There’s just something about sitting down with someone who doesn’t know anything about you really and just speaking authentically from the heart with them about what you’re experiencing. That is incredible for me and it’s definitely something I’m still working through at the moment and the changes I’ve already seen are just unreal.

Louise (09:39.744)
Can you talk about a couple of those changes?

Beth (09:42.474)
Yep, of course. So I think the first thing and one thing I felt was really important for me when I went into therapy was just trying to sit with the feeling of being thankful for what I have now, what I’ve been able to achieve and being content with that. And so I’m really working on not having that feeling of searching for or needing that next best thing.

Another thing was I’d really like to continue living with integrity. making sure I’m doing what feels like the right thing to me, taking the opportunities that sit well for me and actually having the confidence to say no to the things that don’t align with who I am or what I stand for.  

Another thing, as I’ve done like more reflecting, one thing that lockdown and COVID-19 and that whole period taught me was that having autonomy over your life, that freedom and flexibility is really important and it does allow you to sort of live your life in a way that feels right for you.  

So I’m trying to give myself more space to think, speak and live in a way that really aligns with who I am. And because of that, I’ve been able to develop a better work-life balance and started to introduce more boundaries that are just going to help me continue to work through that. But like I say, it’s an ongoing process. So I’m sure as I continue my therapy and keep working through the things that I need to work through, there’s going to be more things that come up where it aligns with my career and how I can sort of navigate that work-life balance a little bit better.

Louise (11:38.134)
Well, that’s the thing, because what I’m hearing is a sense of freedom in your voice as you talk about living more authentically and setting boundaries, boundaries being my favourite subject, and making sure that you have more of a work-life balance and that whatever you’re taking on is really true to you and what you actually want to be doing. But then how do you logistically make this match up to forging a career in adland, where the outside industry may still have some of these markers of success that you’ve now reframed, or there may be demands on your time from certain clients or other colleagues where you want to pull back from that kind of demand. How do you make that work?

Beth (12:19.726)
I’d say a big one for me is the support network that I have developed around me at work. And don’t get me wrong, it’s taken me a while to get to a point where I feel really comfortable with the people around me, and it has taken me getting a little bit older to know that you don’t need to be best friends with everyone.  

So yeah, the support network around me and being comfortable and confident enough to say to them, this is what’s going on, this is what I’m experiencing. And I may need to withdraw a little bit from this situation. Is that something you can help me with? I’m lucky enough to have a manager who is amazing and whenever I need to reach out about anything, he is there.  

So I think that has massively helped me and I have understood that throughout my career, I have been in difficult situations with people I didn’t always get on with. And like I say, I’ve got older, I have had more opportunity to be able to think, actually, that relationship isn’t serving me and it isn’t comfortable for me and I don’t feel supported. So I’m going to remove myself from that situation. And that has helped dramatically.

Louise (13:46.838)
So would that be relationships within the workplace or relationships in your personal life where the effects of those would then filter into how you were at work?

Beth (13:55.946)
Yeah, both, both definitely. So I’ve experienced relationships with managers that I found extremely difficult and only now when I have a really great manager, I’m able to sort of reflect on that experience to think actually that wasn’t a positive experience and I’ve had to try and take lessons from that for myself to know that that’s not okay for as how to be treated basically, and the manager I have now is showing me a relationship that is a really great manager relationship. And then in my personal life the same story really, and I’ve been able to think more about my personal relationships whether that be with family, friends to understand what type of network of people I want around me and I’m trying to put more time into nurturing the relationships that feel really important to me and I think as you get older you do realise that you don’t need a huge network of friends.  

I have a group of really close friends who I trust more than anything and they are my support network and that is completely okay with me. But if you would have told me that at the start of my career, I would have wanted to be friends with absolutely everyone.

Louise (15:33.13)
Which doesn’t always serve you well, as you’ve lived through that. I mean, there’s so much to pick up here. The first thing I’d say is you’re not alone in having had less than positive experiences with managers in the past.  

And when NABS conducted our community consultation All Ears in October 2023, we found overwhelmingly that people’s experience with their manager coloured their perception of work and their ability to do the work, be happy at work and even stay in their roles, which is why we then developed our Managers’ Mindsets training to help people get the skills they need in order to be the managers that help people to thrive and help to boost mental wellness. So we’ll post a link for all of that in the show notes.  

The other thing that’s coming through strongly is about the power of community and how it’s not about having the world’s biggest extended network.

Louise (16:26.89)
But it is about having some sort of community around you and I’ve feeling that you’re being very intentional with yours, which is sounding like a very sensible and supportive way to go. And I wonder whether that’s also what’s drawn you to Bloom North and it’s something that Bloom North and NABS have got in common. We both really believe in the power of community. A lot of what we offer is based around bringing people together in an intentional and positive way in order to boost mental wellness.

Louise (16:57.214)
Why don’t you talk to us a bit about Bloom North, what it does, how it’s helped you, and how using that sense of community, how it intentionally helps other people.

Beth (17:07.756)
Yeah, so I joined Bloom North when I was about 22. So I’d been in the industry for a year and I’ve basically been attending events since then. And the sense of community that that gave me when I was feeling particularly lost and confused about how to navigate my career was incredible.  

It’s given me access to a huge range of really inspirational people who have become part of my professional life and have helped me open a number of doors to opportunities, which I’m so grateful for. A lot of the courage that I’ve had to pursue and navigate through the things that I’ve been determined to achieve have come from what I’ve learned at Bloom workshops and panel events.  

And even now, as I’m navigating through this particular challenge in my life as I start to understand my values and identify how I’d like to better align with them and things. Bloom is continuing to provide me with that sense of community. It’s a sense of home for me and belonging, but in a different way to how it used to be, but an extremely rewarding way as I’m now in a position where I’m giving back to a community that has given me so much.

I think it is super important no matter where you’re at with your career or even how busy you are to make time for organisations like Bloom and NABS, as they are both bringing something for literally everyone, and we do really need senior leadership to get behind us and help champion that.  

I think everyone could do with a helping hand to sort of navigate through personal and professional life and how to interlink them, because for most people that interlink does happen and that’s exactly what Bloom North and NABS is here to sort of help with.

Louise (19:19.382)
And just to clarify, Bloom North is the northern section of Bloom, which is an organisation for women in adland. With Bloom North, you’re serving people in Manchester and the surrounds.

Beth (19:34.24)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we have Bloom Scotland and we have the brand new Bloom North East. So that is coming soon and we have Bloom Leeds as well. So we are a bit of a collective of northern houses all coming together. So and it is broadening into more of the northern regions, which is incredible to see as well.

Louise (19:53.034)
Very good.

Beth (20:03.618)
Yeah.

Louise (20:04.574)
It’s great. It’s not all about London people, says the person staying in London. Now, one of the things you’re doing loads of work with, which is very interesting is work with Gen Z. And at NABS we’re really looking at this cohort as well because they’re the future of the industry. So we need to do what we can to support their mental wellness and their ability to progress and stay in the industry and evolve.

Now, what are you seeing as the challenges for Gen Z at the moment in our workplaces and our industry? And how do you think we can all work together practically and positively to support them?

Beth (20:42.08)
Yeah, I think this is something I’m really passionate about at both Essence MediaCom and Bloom North. And when I think back to when I started my career, I really could have done with the support that Bloom North offers when I first started out. I do think now we are navigating a very different group of individuals.

Gen Zs are prioritising their own time more than we ever have done before. I’m finding that younger people are more aligned with things like wellness, fitness, they’re not going out drinking as much. So there’s quite a lot that we need to take to change how we have traditionally led events and workshops and things like that for younger people.

So I think there are a few different elements to it. But what we sort of need to lean into is the shifts that we’ve seen and how young people are starting to engage with information and taking information. So, for example, there’s a very obvious space where we need to be focusing more on building more of an online presence with things like Instagram reels, TikToks.  

So sharing career advice in a bit more of like a quick accessible way for people which will allow them to sort of save the content and re-access it when they need to. It’s also more of like a comfortable way of younger people taking in advice without it feeling super overwhelming or daunting.  

Another thing that I’ve been quite passionate about is making sure we’re giving a voice to people who are relatable for Gen Z’s. So for example, we see a lot of amazing events with incredible people talking about their stories with 20-plus years’ worth of experience in the industry. And that is amazing and gives a lot of future aspirations for people. But I think it’s really important that we’re trying to bridge that gap between someone younger and newer and that future aspiration. Because that middle ground can feel a little bit more accessible and relatable for Gen Z’s.

Louise (23:05.92)
I think that’s a really important point. Has Bloom North got anything planned in this arena?

Beth (23:12.526)
Yeah, so I think as we start to plan more workshops and panel events, we’re trying to bridge the gap between Bloom and what we were traditionally referring to as young Bloomers to bring them together a little bit more, to have a bit more diverse range of panelists where we have people who have been in the industry for 20 plus years.

And we have someone who’s been in the industry for six or seven years to make sure we’re sort of varying perspectives a little bit more and making it relatable for everyone in the audience rather than sort of a set group of people.

Louise (23:57.11)
Do you think that there’s anything practical that we need to be doing to help those who have got 20-plus years experience understand more about where Gen Z are coming from? And I say this again, referring back to All Ears, where one of our key findings is that there’s not so much a generation gap we’re seeing, but an assumptions gap where the people coming into the industry and the very senior people who’ve been here for a long time are making assumptions about each other without really being able to understand perspectives, outlook, ambition, and so on.

Beth (24:31.639)
Yeah.

Beth (24:38.944)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think, especially this year with doing my vice-presidency and presidency with Lucy Gugas. Lucy has got an incredible amount of experience in the industry. She’s an incredible woman and it has taught me a lot about, although we’re not in a traditional mentoring relationship, I’ve learned so much from Lucy and the questions that I ask her and I try to be inquisitive about her career just as much as she does about mine. And it has taught me that mentorship is super important. And I think if we can get more mentors who have been in the industry for a long time mentoring Gen Z’s and that is a strong working relationship, then that would help bridge that gap a little bit more.

I think that there just needs to be more open conversations like Lucy and I have had about our careers and our experiences to help bridge the gap more and make it more of an understanding relationship, if that makes sense.

Louise (25:51.19)
Yeah, it makes perfect sense. So the events NABS has done involve mentoring, whether that’s our speed mentoring events, where we’ll have one mentor and a group of mentees. And then that group will change around during the event. So they’ll speak to about four mentors. Or we have Walk and Talk, which is a walking event, two-and-a-half to three hours out in the sunshine somewhere. And you can pair up with a mentor during the walk. All of the mentors on those events tell us that they get so much out of it and that they actually get loads of information, inspiration from the mentee. So it’s very much a two-way educational, inspirational exchange.

Beth (26:30.678)
Yeah, definitely. I completely agree that when I took on the vice-presidency, I never expected to also take away from it, like such a strong relationship and learning so much about the industry and how to navigate the industry. Yeah, I’ve loved working with Lucy so much and it has made me really think about having a mentor in the future.

Louise (27:00.352)
Very good. Well, I think if you are listening to this and you think you want to get involved with a mentoring event and check out what Bloom North have got going on, check out what Bloom have got going on and check out NABS as well. There’s loads of opportunities amongst our three organisations.  

Now, how does the adland community lift you up?

Beth (27:21.966)
So I think most people will say this, but the people I’ve met and continue to meet are amazing. I’ve met some of my bestest friends who have been nothing but supportive of me and a whole host of other people who have advocated for me throughout my career. They’ve shown up whenever I’ve needed them, given me advice whenever I’d asked for it.  

And like I said, I have had difficult relationships to navigate, but that has allowed me to understand the value of working with people who truly understand and respect you as a person. And I have been able to be more selective about the people that I keep around me and in my support bubble as I’ve got older. So I’m really grateful for the people around me and for being the vice president for a community that provide so much support for people. Yeah, the people are just incredible.

Louise (28:25.878)
That is so lovely and there’s so much wisdom in that. And I can’t help but think the sooner on you realise that the negative relationships you’ve had are actually an opportunity to teach you what a positive relationship looks like, then the better that will really set you up for life.

Beth (28:40.608)
Yeah, definitely. Sorry, relationships that I had that were really difficult have taught me a lot about the type of manager and mentor for people that I want to be as well. So I am grateful for all the opportunities that I’ve had. I’ve learned a lot.

Louise (29:00.522)
Are you managing at the moment?

Beth (29:02.602)
Yeah, yeah, so I have an amazing team of four people.

Louise (29:09.878)
So what have you put into practice as a manager as a result of having been managed in an unsupportive way in the past?

Beth (29:18.9)
Yeah, we have very open, honest lines of communication. I’ll always say to the team, nothing’s off the cards. Whatever you need to say, please put it out there. I think one big thing for me is in decision-making processes for anything that’s going to affect the team, we sit down as a team and we make them decisions together.  

I try to get their opinions and help that influence a final decision as much as it possibly can. Yeah, but the biggest thing for me is just creating a space where people can be open and honest with how they’re feeling, whether that is a negative opinion about something that we have going on, it doesn’t matter. I want people to feel like they can be open and honest and that is the best way to be.

Louise (30:15.67)
That sounds absolutely marvellous. If I was looking for another job, I’d come and work for you. I’m sure you’d love managing me. Somehow we’ve got to the end of the conversation, which has just been really quick, but really enriching and just lovely speaking to you. What’s one lesson you’ve learned about how best to support yourself?

Beth (30:38.958)
So I would say the biggest thing that I’ve learned is if you can’t advocate for yourself, it’s so much harder for other people to do that for you. I think even as I live more authentically and in line with my values, I haven’t lost the part of myself that pushes forward and drives progress, so that part of me has helped me recognise when I am doing well and it’s empowered me to speak up for myself without relying on that constant validation or praise that you might have seen during the education system for example.  

I think it’s really important for women to learn how to advocate for themselves, because when we do, everyone benefits, and it’s not just about standing up for ourselves, it’s about lifting each other up and I have learnt that you can be bold, you can be driven, whilst still being down-to-earth, sensitive, emotional, I am all of these things all at the same time and that’s completely okay.

Louise (31:45.96)
It’s like Brene Brown says, the flip side of vulnerability is courage and you can’t have one without the other.

Beth (31:50.154)
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. I remember thinking at one point, I’ve always been a very sensitive person. And at one point in my career, I was thinking you can’t be that, that’s not the work, the type of person to be in the workplace. But actually, for me to feel happy and confident and comfortable at work, I have to have that side of myself as well, because it’s such a huge part of my personality.

So I’ve been able to sort of merge the two and understand that it’s okay to be all of the things that you are at the same time and be that in the workplace. Because the more you are yourself, the more confident and happy and comfortable you’ll feel at work.

Louise (32:41.78)
That is a very beautiful note to end on. And this has actually been a very relaxing conversation. I’m feeling like, yeah, it’s okay to be yourself. Let’s just sit here and be ourselves. And it’s, we’ll all, all of the positive fruits of our labour will result.

Beth (32:57.526)
Yeah, definitely. I think it is important, as someone who struggled coming into work from the education system, like I said, I always felt like I needed to be someone I wasn’t and I always tried, what’s other people behaving like? I’m not, can’t do that and I can’t do this and I can’t say that.

But actually as I’ve progressed through my career and I’ve gotten to a point where I’m really comfortable with where I work and the people that I work with, I’ve learnt that it’s totally okay to be who you are and you will feel the best if you are who you are.

Louise (33:44.24)
Beth, you have been here, you are on this podcast and it’s been most enjoyable. So thank you so much for joining us. And once again, we’ll all the relevant links in the show notes below. You can find out more about Bloom North and NABS and how to become a super manager and how to get involved with mentoring. Beth, thank you so much.

Beth (34:03.375)
No thank you, thank you, this is an amazing opportunity and I’m so grateful for it so thank you.

Louise (34:09.194)
You are welcome.