Ep31: Caregiving in adland – Ben Waters’ devoted double life

NABS Advice Line

NABS therapy referral

NABS’ Managers’ Mindsets

Carers’ Week

Louise (00:02.382)

Ben Waters is a producer at Mother and a leading advocate for caregivers in the advertising industry. Ben’s been working in adland for around 14 years, describing himself as a failed creative who quickly realised that production was his calling.

Ben started his career at the agency 101 before a few years freelancing, then going on to VCCP before his current home at Mother. Campaigns he’s worked on include Uber, IKEA and KFC.

Ben is a big fan of tattoos, snowboarding and golf, saying that his 16-year-old self would be disappointed in the inclusion of golf. Well, his younger self would not be disappointed at his amazing ability to give care to his partner, as well as forging his career and his brilliant work in supporting other caregivers in adland. And we’re going to talk about all of that today. Welcome to the NABS Podcast, Ben, how are you doing?

Ben Waters (00:56.61)

I think we’ve great. It’s good to be here talking about such a wonderful subject, which feels weird to be saying wonderful subject, but I think it is a wonderful thing and needs to be talked about more. And yeah, my 16-year-old self would definitely be proud of where I am today, but not so much about the golf.

Louise (01:15.054)

I don’t know though, I think your 16 year old self would enjoy coming to the NABS golf day in early September. We’ll put a link for that down in the show notes for him. The 16-year-old-self would love the tattoos though. I have to say I’ve met Ben and he is absolutely covered in tattoos. And it’s what I find really interesting about your story is that whatever the idea in my head of what a carer looked like, it’s not you.

Ben Waters (01:23.532)

Hahaha.

Louise (01:42.176)

Like you’ve got all of these tattoos, you dress like a surfboarder, you used to do kiteboarding, didn’t you? So you’ve got that kind of dressing going on, the tunnels in your ears, a baseball cap, like super hip, super trendy, about as, however hip and trendy I am not, you are. And you just don’t look like the perceived idea of a caregiver, which I think adds even more like interest and accessibility to your story. So let’s hear more about that.

Ben Waters (01:49.795)

Yeah.

 

Louise (02:11.694)

Just tell us about your caring responsibilities, your life as a carer and how that’s been your biggest mental wellness challenge.

Ben Waters (02:21.55)

I think caregiving is a wonderful thing and it can be quite hard, and often it’s very, very hard, but it’s a wonderful thing to be able to give someone some care. I think from how that works in advertising it can be quite a hard juggle. I think like obviously I think we all love our jobs, we’re all type A personalities, we’re all about making the work great and sometimes it can be hard to juggle that with the caregiving responsibilities at home.

I think getting that balance is probably the hardest mental wellness challenge that I face personally. I can tend to get soaked up with my work and I’m focusing on the work and I’ve got to do this, that and the other and I need to make sure this is right. And sometimes that can take away from my caregiving life. And then it’s kind of vice versa.

So sometimes I’m so wrapped up in my caregiving life that I need to focus on this, I need to do this for my partner, need to mow the lawn, I need to do the weekly shop, need to do the finances, I need to do the insurance, like that sort of stuff, and then take away from my sort of advertising life. And I think getting that balance just right is almost impossible, but it is possible when you’re talking to people and you’re kind of sharing what’s going on in your life, it makes it lot easier. The bit that I’m kind of… sorry.

Louise (03:41.044)

You’re caring for your… Sorry. You’re caring for your partner, aren’t you?

Ben Waters (03:45.006)

Yeah, my partner has a couple of conditions which means that her health can sometimes be unpredictable. So, one day she might be on top of the world and getting by just fine. And then the next day she might be bed bound or not being able to get out of bed or feed herself or whatever it might be. It tends to be quite extreme when it kind of gets to that side of things.

However, thankfully that’s not been the case too much recently, we’re on sort of like a good streak at the moment, but it can get there. Which again leads to a little bit of instability potentially when working in advertising and caregiving. It’s, you can’t predict what’s going to happen in a client review and I can’t predict what’s going to happen in my caregiving life. So you’re kind of always on edge, potentially fighting fires in both situations, which can get a lot sometimes.

 

Louise (04:36.952)

So, neither of these situations are a nine to five. It’s not as though you get to give an hour of care a day and then go and have fun doing whatever else you want to do. And it’s not as if being in advertising has got set hours. So what I’m hearing is there’s both the mental load of both of those responsibilities, but also any anxiety that might come from – I’ve got to work all day there, but I need to be there at the same time. What are the kind of other feelings that all of this brings up for you on a day-to-day basis?

Ben Waters (05:16.494)

I think, yeah, it is always sort of like a battle between the two, I guess, two loves of my life on that. And I think the feelings I struggle with are potentially looking after myself. And I think that’s something a lot of caregivers will neglect. You’re always focusing on doing the best job you can or giving the best care you can and other people’s needs that you sometimes forget about your own needs.

And it can be something that is the easiest thing to put to the back of the list. know, like, I’ve got this really big presentation. I also need to do my caregiving. But then I also need to look after myself. Well, I don’t matter. I’m okay. I can deal with myself. So, let’s do the work, do the caregiving and then focus on myself. And sometimes you just don’t get that opportunity to focus on yourself because then the next meeting comes up or the next caregiving responsibility comes up and there’s no way for you to put yourself in there and kind of go, I need five minutes for me.

And I think if you’re a caregiver, you tend to be hardwired to be helping others and wanting to do things for other people and kind of not doing stuff for yourself. And the, takes quite a lot for you to kind of realise that a lot of caregivers, I’m sure get to the point of burnout before they realise that, I need to look after myself as well.

And then there’ll be sort of like a quick burst of, right, I’m going to do some self-care. I’m going to book a holiday, I’m going to go to a spa, I’m going to look after myself. But that’s only a very short period of time where you look after yourself and then it’s back to the caregiver, back to the advertising. I think that’s one of the biggest struggles that a lot of caregivers will be struggling with.

Louise (06:58.136)

Have you been in that situation yourself where you’ve had a run of absolutely no time for Ben and then at the end of it, you’re just completely gone? And what did you do, if so, to dial yourself back from that?

Ben Waters (07:10.69)

Yes, it happens quite a lot. And anyone that knows me will definitely know this. I, I tend to just go to Japan, which is, it sounds like a bit of a wild thing, a little bit extreme. so I, I find that I work really hard. I do a lot of caregiving and then I just kind of go, right, I need a break. And it feels like the furthest, furthest…

Louise (07:22.311)

It’s a little bit extreme but let’s run with it.

Ben Waters (07:37.352)

…way that I can get from my responsibilities and the intensity of my daily life is to go all around the to the other side of the world and just be away from the phone, be away from caring and responsibilities. Make sure everyone’s set up and it’s not like anything’s going to go wrong on the way, but it takes that level of travel for me to feel like a little bit of zen where I can just log off and just do me for a little bit, which is not healthy financially or mentally, really. You can’t just go to Japan every time you need a break.

I think I’ve been working quite a lot recently on trying to bring little things to my own personal life to get those little breaks in. It’s like going to the gym, it’s doing therapy, it’s journaling, it’s all those sorts of little things that you tend to see in really cringe social films where people are all alpha males and they’re trying to be the best you.

Not to that level, yeah, just taking on some of those learnings actually does help quite a bit. Kind of dial me in and make sure that I can do what I need to do without going to Japan.

Louise (08:44.236)

Indeed, although you could always get some sushi, I guess, which would be a much more accessible way of bringing some Japan into your life. I think it’s important to acknowledge the extra load that might be around you even taking some daily time for yourself. For example, you want to go to the gym. Does that mean you then need to spend a bit of time planning out who might be on hand to look after your partner if she requires some emergency care while you’re out at the gym?

Ben Waters (09:11.008)

Yes, I tend to go, I tend to get up early doors, so maybe 6am. So before anyone’s awake, I kind of go, right, this is my time. I can get up early and go and do things. I think if there was a situation where a caregiving needed to come first, gym’s the first thing that goes out the door. you know, I can always go to gym another day. I can always work out another day. So I just jump straight back in on the caregiving. And that’s okay on occasion.

But I think if you… if it’s sort of like a particularly bad period of time and you need to really focus on that caregiving, then you can kind of get out of the habits and all the good habits you’ve kind of put in place. And it’s quite easy to strain to that. actually I’m not looking after myself again. I’m just working really hard or caregiving and not giving myself time. Yep. And then I’m straight on the phone to the travel agents and I’m into Japan again. It’s not good.

Louise (09:57.678)

And then you get back to the place of burnout again.

Louise (10:03.286)

Yeah, exactly. Which again, extreme, but also enjoyable. Now, you’ve been in this situation for a while. You are relatively young to be in this. You’re early thirties, aren’t you?

Ben Waters (10:15.886)

Yeah, 37. So I’ll take early 30s.

Louise (10:18.542)

You’re welcome. Which just shows that people of all walks of life and people doing all kinds of roles in adland can be affected by being a caregiver. But you had lived this life for a while without really realising the impact that it was having on you, which then led you in a roundabout way to contact NABS and start reflecting on this.

So can you talk about this journey of actually contacting NABS and then opening up a world of support for yourself?

Ben Waters (10:48.642)

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so I think I’ve been doing it nearly eight years now. I think at the start, my partner’s condition can kind of fluctuate and kind of get worse and better. I think probably the past six years, it’s kind of deteriorated quite a lot. So it is something that kind of creeps up on you and you don’t realise how much you’re doing or how much you’re giving away of yourself to kind of be in this situation.

So I started reaching out to NABS, so we’d got like a caregiving group that we’ve set up at Mother. And I got in contact with NABS because I think when I was trying to be the failed creative back in the day, was in contact with NABS to find my creative soulmate. And yeah, my organisational skills meant that that wasn’t possible. I was too organised. I was too like, things need to be, yeah, exactly that. So NABS is kind of my first thought because I think…

Louise (11:39.822)

Too organised to be creative.

Ben Waters (11:47.11)

…advertising, mental health, caregiving. It’s a very niche sort of collection of things that need to be discussed. Like I’ve talked to therapists in the past and they don’t really get advertising and they’re like, well, you just need a less stressful job. This doesn’t sound like the right job for you. And I’m like, this isn’t, I love this job. This is everything to me. I love my job. That’s not an answer. Or they go, your caregiving situation is too intense. You need to look at how, how this works in your life. And I go, I love my partner.

Louise (12:08.44)

Right.

 

Louise (12:16.067)

Right.

Ben Waters (12:16.142)

That’s not, that’s not an option as well. So I think talking to NABS allows you to talk to someone who understands advertising, and the world we live in, and how amazing it is and how intense it is – while also having all the knowledge around sort of mental health and support that can be offered and ways you might not be thinking about ways to look after yourself.

So I think when I initially got into contact with NABS with the caregivers’ group, I was mainly focused around what support can the group get. And we talked around that for about half an hour. And then I think, pretty quickly after that, the person I was talking to was just like, how are you doing? And I was like, oh, wow, that’s a big question. And then we just had this wonderful chat for half hour about how kind of what we’re talking about here is like how caregiving was going for me. What sort of steps I’m taking to look after myself, like what support do I need? And it was totally out of the blue. Like I was…

Louise (12:57.536)

Mmm.

Ben Waters (13:13.39)

I was just on this call and then was like, baring my soul to this wonderful person. And I was just like, I did not expect this to be near like 4pm on a Thursday in the Zoom booth talking about this sort of stuff. But it was just like instantly a really easy conversation that I got a lot of benefit from. And ever since sort of that call, I’ve just been checking in with NABs quite regularly. I’m talking to all my colleagues about NABS as well.

And I think one of the things for me was I’ve done many, many batches of therapy over the years. And they came up in this conversation. I was offered free therapy and I was like, what’s the catch? There’s got to be a catch. And it was just like, no, no, no catch. If you need therapy, we’re here for you and support. I was just, yeah, it was just really like, my God moment, that I can get some therapy and some support. And since I’ve kind of been taking up that offer of support, I’ve been talking to a therapist for, I think 10 weeks now.

Louise (14:11.992)

Mm.

Ben Waters (14:12.256)

And it’s really allowed me to kind of understand what’s going on in my own head and my situation for caregiving and trying to get some boundaries together for not only my work-life balance, but my work-life caregiver balance. It’s really helped me kind of focus on me and put myself first, which is something I struggle with quite a lot. So it’s been really, really game-changing for me.

Louise (14:23.63)

Mm.

Louise (14:36.322)

You know, I can really feel the sense of relief in your voice as you’re describing that moment when someone finally asks you how you’re doing, because you don’t even normally get a chance to consider yourself. And all of a sudden someone’s there to say, look, think about yourself for a change and, you know, showing interest in how you are. So it’s really heartening to know that the support is out there and how you’re benefiting from it and that the therapy is actually helping you to practically reflect on setting some of those boundaries.

Is there anything that you’d be able to share in terms of a boundary-setting exercise, or a practical takeaway that you’ve got so far from your sessions, that you’re implementing into your life to help you manage the work caregiving mix a bit more effectively?

Ben Waters (15:27.126)

Yeah, think it’s the main thing is, is questioning says a couple of things. The first one is like, who am I doing this for? And a lot of, a lot of me is kind of as a producer and as a caregiver, it’s always for someone else. So, I’m doing this presentation for this person to do this thing, or I’ve taken on this caregiving duty that I need to do for my partner or for my family or, you know, for my dad for X reasons.

There’s always someone else I’m doing things for and the therapy has allowed me to kind of look at things I’m potentially taking on that probably aren’t my responsibility and it’s just me trying to give more and more of myself away. And I really need to be just holding onto that. If I say yes to a task, it takes me two hours. That’s two hours away from my personal life that I could, what could I do in those two hours? I could go to the gym, I could go for a walk, could read a book.

Like all these things, I’m just like, maybe I don’t say yes to that because really that’s not my responsibility and it’s not something that is urgent. So why would I say yes if it’s going to take two hours of my life away like that? That, it was quite a big one for me because I’m just always like, yep, I’ll do that. No worries. Whatever you need, I’ve got you. And just realising how much of my time and how much myself I’m giving away. And it allowed me just to kind of focus in and kind of do me a little bit more.

Louise (16:51.854)

You know, that’s a really good one. And it’s not dissimilar to my experience as a working parent, where I’ve become keenly aware that what I’m saying yes to is also what I’m saying no to and vice versa. And I guess in your case, it’s not just a question of the activity that you’re saying no to if you’re saying yes to something, but really crucially saying no to supporting your mental wellness. If you’re saying yes to something that really isn’t for you to do and someone else could handle quite effectively.

 

Ben Waters (17:21.326)

Yeah. And especially when you’re getting to the point of burnout or you’re just feeling so, the world’s on your shoulders, but yet you’re the one throwing stuff on your shoulders, whereas you could be using that time just to kind of take that stuff off. It’s a really key thing and it’s taken me so long to realise it, unfortunately. And I just wish I’d had these conversations about six years ago.

Louise (17:44.462)

It’s never too late, Ben. It’s never too late. What I’m interested in is the fact that you set up the carers’ support group at Mother. So innately, you must have known that support was a necessary thing. So can you talk to us about what led you to set that up and how logistically it works and what kind of support you’re all getting from each other?

Ben Waters (17:45.708)

Yeah.

Ben Waters (18:02.734)

I think I’ve gotten to the stage now in caregiving where I’m very open and I’ll talk to anyone about it. If someone goes, how are you doing? I can be like, right, before we start, is that a how am I doing or is that just a polite how are we doing? And then if it’s a how are you doing? I’ll go off for about half an hour on my life. So I’m very, very open about it. And I think that can be quite a lengthy process for people to get there.

And I know when I first started caregiving, I didn’t want to tell anyone about it. was just like, this is a bit of a secret. Like I can’t tell anyone that I’m a caregiver because they may look at me like, this guy’s a caregiver. I can’t give him the big fancy job because he’s not going to have time to do it. Or there might just be some unfavourable thoughts, which has never been the case. As soon as I’ve been open with it, it’s not affected anything. But I think it’s just that internal worry and stress that people are going to think X, Y, Z about me.

So I think I, um, I was very open prior to Mother, but Mother being quite a very, very open and welcoming place, I can really be myself here. I’m like turbo me. I’m sharing these things. So I was talking to some people, um, about caregiving and my manager was like, oh, I think there’s, there might be some, some caregivers in the agency.

I reached out to our people team and was like, there a caregiver group? And they were like, oh no, but that sounds like a fantastic idea.

So then I just kind of took that, got in contact with a couple of the caregivers that were open to their details being shared. And we just had some really sort of open chats.

I think the first person I talked to, we had half an hour in the diary and then we ended up talking for maybe two hours. And it was almost like, my God, there’s someone in advertising that has, know, we had very, very different situations, but the similarities on what we were feeling and the experiences we had was so similar that we were like, this is, this is like therapy, just having this chat.

Louise (19:45.794)

Wow.

Ben Waters (20:00.6)

We needed to branch out and get some more people involved. So then we’ve got another couple of caregivers involved.

There’s like three of us that kind of do the day-to-day running of this group. How we sort of go out there in the world is we have, so maybe once or twice a month we’ll get together just as a caregiver group and open to all the caregivers in the agency.

We can put out an email and send if anyone’s a caregiver, in fact it’s a coffee or a chat. We’re going outside the agency to like sort of like a closed-off area where we can just all relax and chat and just vent about what’s going on in our lives.

And it’s weird that all you need, is that you just need a room with some caregivers that have similar or sometimes not similar experiences, just to talk about what’s going on in their life with no fear about being judged, knowing that everyone in the room.

You know, if I said, God, I’m having a really, really tough time being a caregiver at the moment, it’s really hard. I don’t feel any guilt saying that because I’m surrounded by people that have definitely had these feelings before. And that’s the sort of the main thing, that’s all it takes is just like a small group of people who have had some shared experiences.

We talk through maybe some tips and tricks we’ve had throughout the years. So it might be, you know, I need to sort something out for my parent with the council. And then someone else in the group has had some experience about that and go, if you want a little chat, can take this…

Louise (20:58.422)

Yeah.

Ben Waters (21:27.506)

…offline, a chat when we get back to the agency about how best to approach the council or lawyers or whatever it might be. And yeah, it’s just that we’ve had conversations and I’ve realised stuff about myself, things I didn’t realise that was even a thing for me, like talking about people in their past and relationships and stuff. I’m like, oh, wow, this seems like I’m talking to myself. And then you just meet up with those people outside of that group setting, have a chat, have a coffee.

 

We often go for walks around Shoreditch and just have a coffee and talk about big scary things happening at the moment. Could you just listen to me and offer no judgment or, or not even any advice? It’s just like, I just need to talk about this to someone who I know is just going to understand, get it. And then just kind of go, yeah, that’s really rubbish or let me know if you need any help, but that, that should be it.

Louise (22:00.48)

Nice.

Louise (22:15.725)

Yeah.

Ben Waters (22:24.014)

So we’re trying to branch out, get some activities planned, some sort of, especially Caregivers’ Week, just like some more insight around what’s going on. Yeah, that’s sort of the main thing. And I think just having that as a group, anyone that comes in and thinks they might be a caregiver, it’s also a good resource for that. So obviously, caregiving can be really intense. It could be like you’re in the trenches every day and it’s really strong care you need to give someone.

Louise (22:31.82)

Yep.

Ben Waters (22:53.144)

But then it could be as much as you need to do the weekly shop for a sick aunt or you need to just check in with someone once a week on the phone. All these levels of caregiving are still caregiving and we want to be there for everyone who has any of those sort of situations.

Louise (22:57.294)

Mm.

Louise (23:01.453)

Hmm.

Louise (23:08.296)

That’s beautiful stuff. With the group, do you have it as a free-flowing conversation or is there any facilitation work that someone has to do to make sure everyone gets heard? And also, is there any work around holding space if someone says something that really is quite emotionally profound, or if someone’s really, really struggling and could actually benefit from some therapeutic work?

Ben Waters (23:38.09)

Yeah. So what tends to happen is I think we, I’m very open, so I’ll just kick things off. We’ll all be in room in a circle and I’ll go, I’ve had this situation come up. It’s quite stressful when it might be a work-related one or it might be caregiving. Tends to be kind of interrelated. And that will kind of just start off conversations and, you know, we’ll all listen in and we’ll give everyone, if you were speaking, you’re going to be heard by everyone within the group.

But there’s no sort of strict form. It’s just like you have no need to talk if you don’t want to, if you just want to kind of sit there and listen in absolutely fine. There’s no sort of, no sort of stress or agenda. I think there has been a couple of times where something quite important has come up and I think it’s something we take note of within the group and people will check in afterwards.

If someone’s having a really rough time and the session finishes and everyone goes back to their sort of work life, we’ll make sure to be sort of keeping an extra eye on that person and just checking and making sure they’re okay throughout the working week as time goes on.

And I think if anything does come up that is particularly sort of punchy or intense, we would 100 % recommend sort of like a therapy or reaching out to someone with a bit more expertise. Because obviously we’re a group of caregivers and we’ve got our own lived experience, but we don’t have the lived experience that…

Louise (24:38.456)

Mm.

Ben Waters (25:04.212)

…might be right for that situation or the potential legal knowledge or sort of mental support knowledge. So, we’d always point that person to someone like a NABS or a therapy just to kind of give them the proper support needed.

Louise (25:14.295)

Yeah.

Louise (25:19.18)

Yeah, and you’ve mentioned the legal issues that might arise for someone there as well as the therapeutic needs, and the NABS Advice Line would be a great place to start for anyone listening to this who is facing one or more of those challenges. Call our support team, have a chat and then it may well be that you would also be able to get some free therapy as well because we provide that service. So we’ll pop the details in the show notes there as well.

So that’s all sounding really, really positive. And it’s also vital that you get management support and management buy-in for that, because you will have people saying, well, I know we’re in the middle of this big project, but it’s the caregivers’ group now and I absolutely have to go. And you need the managers to be able to support that and say, yeah, great. I understand you need that for your mental wellness.

That’s just one small example, but how do you think that managers can best support caregivers in their teams? And you’ve said to me previously that your managers have been amazing. So anything that they’ve been doing as well that can give some inspo.

Ben Waters (26:15.272)

Yeah, I think it’s, think firstly, I think I’m very lucky to be able to open up to my managers about kind of anything in my life, be it caregiving or a whole host of other stuff that they’re like, Ben, this isn’t anything to do with advertising. I’ll listen to you. I’ll support you. What do you need? Like it’s, a really great relationship I have with my managers. And I think I’ve been very lucky there. I think it’s anything to do with especially caregiving.

They understand that it’s a very personal thing that I’m coming to them with and it can be quite heavy and it can be quite intense and having the sort of knowledge to kind of go, right, this person is sharing such a personal, deep thing, you know, most people wouldn’t be comfortable sharing with their manager, you know, like, is my manager going to look at me and go, he’s not fit for this job anymore because he’s got this responsibility outside of the office. Like I have no fear of that whatsoever.

Having managers that are approachable and really respect you and what you do is really key. And I think acknowledgement from a manager as well. I have a bit of a habit of throwing myself into work when things are particularly tough. So, if my work, my home life is really tough, I’ll go, I can’t control this big part of my life. I know I can control my work life.

So I’m going to focus more energy there to try and, it was almost escape, escape my own personal life. And having my managers know that I do have those tendencies. And if I’m suddenly putting my hand up for more work and they know I’m at max capacity, they need to go, hang on a minute. What’s going on? Are you okay? Just take a step back. And then we have a conversation around actually work life works quite hard at home at the moment.

Louise (27:38.593)

Yeah.

Ben Waters (28:03.67)

And they’ll then go, okay, well, the answer to that isn’t to give you more work, it is to give you less work and then we’ll have a conversation about maybe freeing up some of my time just to focus on me. And when things get really, really intense, there was a time last year where things were particularly tough at home and my manager just like take time, however long you need, just you go and sort out your life. We can handle the work.

And just having that sort of relationship with my agency and with my managers is such a relief as a caregiver, because you know that work’s stressful, but they’ve got your back and having that caregiver responsibility at home, having that as a sort of like a situation at work can take a lot of that pressure off. So I think, an understanding of that.

I think, what else? What else do managers do that’s really good?

Yeah. It’s mainly around being open or being approachable and just knowing how intense and personal caregiving is. So really take on board that if someone’s coming to you with a problem around caregiving, they’ve probably been thinking around how are they going to talk to you about it for three weeks and they’ve kind of gone back and forth and they’re like, no, I don’t want to do it. No, I do want to do it. And then they finally got the courage to do it. So when that…

Louise (29:24.718)

Mm.

Ben Waters (29:25.772)

…that first conversation does happen, just make sure that you’re open and you’re not kind of trying to solve the problem. You’re just listening to understand where they’re coming from before offering support.

Louise (29:33.677)

Yeah.

Louise (29:38.86)

Yeah, exactly. So we have our Managers’ Mindsets training and support programme. And there is a workshop where we guide people how to have open conversations about mental wellness. And we say, you’re not there to provide the answers. You’re not therapists. You are the person to listen, practice active listening and to signposts.

So you might be the person to say, why don’t you call NABS and find out about some therapy? You might be the person as your managers to say, you’ve volunteered for too much, what’s going on? Can we help you to find some support? It’s not incumbent upon you to find the solutions, but you’re the pathway, aren’t you?

One thing that occurs to me is you have been a carer for longer that you’ve been at Mother, right? So when you had your job interview, did you disclose that you’re a carer and would you advise that people in your situation do that at interview stage?

Ben Waters (30:26.925)

Yes.

Ben Waters (30:35.79)

Ooh, that is a question. I don’t think I did disclose that I was a carer. I think…

 

 

Ben Waters (30:48.768)

I didn’t disclose in my interview that I was a carer. I don’t know if I’d do that again. Would I do that? I think I probably would.

I think depending on the severity of the caregiving situation, I think if I’d come for the interview and it was quite a stressful period for my caregiving situation, was quite intense needs at home, I probably would have said, just so you’re aware, there’s some caregiving duties that I’m involved with, especially at the moment, it’s quite intense.

I think it was in quite a good spot so I didn’t feel the need to kind of share that and I feel like because I’ve been doing it for quite a long time, I’ve kind of got the juggle just right so I can make it seem like nothing’s going on at home when there is lots of stuff going on at home. So I think it’s all dependent on how comfortable you feel in your personal situation I would say. I think if it is something that is going to have a drastic effect on your work-life balance.

Ben Waters (31:57.324)

I think if you don’t mention it in your interview, it might be something that you kind of, it does more harm than good. ‘Cause you’ve got it bottled up inside you that I can’t tell this person about my caregiving life. need to keep this a secret and it will just kind of build and sit with you. Whereas if you can kind of get out and you’re going to go, I’m fantastic for this job, but unfortunately I do have some caregiving responsibilities at home that would need to be taken into consideration.

Louise (32:05.336)

Yeah.

Louise (32:10.765)

Yeah.

Ben Waters (32:23.374)

And I think having a sort of plan on what support that looks like for you. So, for instance, for me, it’s unpredictable. So, I might need to leave all of a sudden on a Tuesday because I need to get back for my partner as she’s having a flare up and she can’t get out of bed or things like that. That’s quite an extreme version, but it could happen. Or it might be that sometimes I need to leave at 5pm to get home so I…

Louise (32:27.627)

Hmm.

 

Louise (32:46.254)

Mm.

Ben Waters (32:51.874)

… can make dinner on time. That sort of range. I think if you know what you’re doing as a caregiver and how you need to give care, think having that sort of prepped and ready before an interview would be a good thing to have.

Louise (33:05.088)

Yeah, it sounds sensible. Look, you do so much to lift other people up, whether it’s other carers at your organisation or obviously your partner. How does the advertising community lift you up?

Ben Waters (33:17.416)

I love the people. I think I’ve got so many friends now. think it’s kind of a realisation the other day that most of my friends are now friends that I’ve made at work rather than best friends from school. I said, I haven’t actually got any school friends. I’ve got a handful of uni friends and the rest of my friend group is just made up of people that I’ve worked with in advertising. And this is great. I just love my friends.

Ben Waters (33:44.354)

I love the people you work with, like when you’re stressing on a project and you’re all like, this is really intense, but we’re in it together and we’re all eating Domino’s at six, seven, you know, eight o’clock at night as we’re working on a pitch. Like that’s, that’s sort of camaraderie. Yeah, I really enjoy that side of things. And I get a little buzz about seeing work that I’ve worked on out in the world. Like, you know, even if it’s a poster out in the world and I’ll walk past it and I go, can someone take a picture of me in front of this post? Like, I know it’s…

Louise (33:57.666)

Yeah.

Ben Waters (34:13.245)

…I’ve been in advertising too long to still be doing that, but I still love it. Just seeing the work out there or it’s an eye dense spot that you’ve worked on and it comes up and you’ll be with your friends and go, oh yeah, worked on that. That sort of thing really draws me into the culture of advertising and the people. It just puts a big smile on my face whenever I see work out in the world that I’m proud of.

Louise (34:42.328)

I can really feel that joy actually as you’re talking, which is a lovely, lovely thing. And anytime I see something to do with Uber, Ikea or KFC, I am now going to think of you. When I’m in my next Uber, I’m like, well, I spoke to a guy who produced your ads and the driver will be like, what, just give me a five-star rating. Right, it’s been such a delightful chat. And I think what’s really coming across is that you can have… all of these responsibilities and you can be super busy, but you can reach out for help and you can be okay. And it’s okay not to be okay sometimes, but it’s also a right to go and take some time for yourself. And you absolutely have to do it.

So if you’re in a similar situation to Ben, call now, start getting yourself some support. You deserve it. What is one thing you’ve learned about how to support yourself?

Ben Waters (35:32.686)

It is you have to take time for yourself before you can look after others. I think it’s the biggest thing. I think you can always put your needs last, but it’s not going to have benefits for everyone else. So if you’re not your best, you can’t give your best to your caregiving situation or your work situation. And the more you’re sort of in that sort of spiral of I need to focus on point A, point B, but not me. It’ll just get worse and worse. And the more time that goes on, you’ll just, all these sort of feelings and stresses will sort of build and build inside you. And before you know it, you’ll be in… Japan all of a sudden. it’s… You’ll need to jump on a plane to Japan just to get away from it all. You know, it’s…

Ben Waters (36:28.558)

The more open you are with yourself, the more you’re talking to people and sharing some of the issues you have, the better you’ll be able to be a caregiver or the better you’ll be able to be at your job. Like it’s not a taboo subject. It’s a really, it’s a positive thing, caregiving. And if you can think of it in that light and just make sure that you’re looking after yourself just as much as the others or the campaigns you’re working on, it improves your life massively.

Louise (37:00.086)

Wonderful. That is a great note to end on. I have really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you for being so open and candid and for taking some time out of your busy schedule to talk to us. I wish you and your partner all the best.

Ben Waters (37:14.958)

Thank you, it’s been great to chat.

Louise (37:16.504)

Thank you.