Ep39: Merry Christmas, it’s the Yay List

NABS Yay List

NABS Advice Line

NABS Stranger than Summer

NABS workshops

NABS speed mentoring

Louise (00:02.648) 

My guests today are James White, Michelle Sarpong and Sue Todd. James White is commercial director for UK and international at Seedtag, where he leads the UK commercial strategy. Before joining Seedtag, James spent 19 years at the ESI Media Group, with his last position being chief commercial officer for the Evening Standard. Passionate about working with progressive minding businesses, James puts culture and values at the heart of his leadership. 

Michelle Sarpong is head of activation at the7Stars. Michelle is a seasoned marketer with an extensive track record in prominent media agencies across the UK. Michelle was listed one of Campaign’s top 10 media buyers in 23 and 24, as well as being named a Campaign Trailblazer and making the IPA I-List 2024. She’s also part of the founding committee for the Women in Trading Network.  

James and Michelle are both brilliant supporters of NABS, and their respective organisations can be found on this year’s Yay List, this year’s industry list to be on which celebrates NABS’ brilliant donors.  

We also have with us Sue Todd, CEO of NABS. Sue joined us in 2022 following 25 years with well-known brands from across the sector. As well as leading NABS, Sue is chair of the All In Mental Health Committee and an active member of both the timeTo steering committee and WACL. 

Sue tries to practice what she preaches by living a work-life balance. So on her time off, she’s often to be found at the theatre, cycling or meditating. Sue’s the proud mum of one teenage daughter and one dog.  

Welcome everybody to the NABS Podcast festive edition. Michelle, you can’t see this, but Michelle, she’s got her reindeer ears on and everybody else is full of festive spirit. How are you all doing today? 

Sue (01:50.1) 

Very good, thank you. I’m very excited to be here with two of my favourite people from adland. I know I’m not meant to be biased, but I am. 

Michelle Sarpong (01:58.654) 

Thanks very much for having us both on, especially post the North London Derby on Sunday. I’m very glad to see Whitey. 

James White (02:07.432) 

We can cut that if you want, but no thank you. Merry Christmas everyone as well, everyone that’s listening. Great to be here, thank you very much and yeah thanks for that intro, Sarps. We promised ourselves we wouldn’t get on to football, this is much more important than that. 

Michelle Sarpong (02:22.142) 

You knew I had to slip in there, you know? It’s all about the festive cheer and mental wellness. 

James White (02:25.838) 

Okay, it’s a yellow card. It’s a yellow card already 

Louise (02:26.758) 

Well, we’ve got the football digs out of the way. So that means that we can now go on to all things festivity and mental wellness, and then you can return to ribbing each other after the podcast is done.  

So thank you very much everyone for joining me. This is super exciting. It’s our biggest podcast gang yet. So this will be a really good chat. And let’s start by talking about adland’s biggest mental wellness success this year. So of all of the great mental wellness initiatives that are happening, or you’ve seen happen throughout 2025, what struck you the most? Michelle, let’s start with you. 

Michelle Sarpong (05:56.434) 

I’ve been kind of seeing across like LinkedIn, there’s a lot more companies incorporating like mental wellness in days and weeks into their kind of businesses and actually being quite vocal about it, which I think that’s really important, because I think there’s one thing doing it within your companies and not really talking about it, but I think it encourages other companies to kind of offer that kind of opportunity for their staff and actually being like, it’s okay to take that time out.  

I think that’s been probably quite successful that I’ve seen and actually it sparked conversation within the industry which is great as well. So yeah, I think that’s probably the biggest win I’ve seen this year. 

Louise (06:32.442) 

James, what do you think? 

James White (06:34.19) 

Yeah, that’s really important. For me, I think it’s quite difficult to land on one big success. I feel that collective accountability is the thing for me. I think I’ve seen much more consistency across companies putting mental wellness at the heart of their business at the forefront.  

I think if you think about the last five years since the pandemic, it’s been a case of raising awareness. I think there’s definitely been more action on driving outcomes, which has been really important and, just to expand, I would add, you know, we work for probably the most creative industry in the world.  

I think it’s great when you actually see adverts actually bringing it to the forefront as well. Like three quick ones, spring to mind. I mean, the CALM one in between back of 24 in the US election was really good when it just took 30 seconds out. brands like ASICS are doing it.  

The actor Brian Cox did a really great advert, which talked about taking 15 minutes back from your desk. And then McDonald’s did that brilliant, brilliant campaign where they took away the smile from the Happy Meals. And as a parent, that really resonated with me. So I think all in, I think there’s more authenticity right from the start to the end. I think that’s been great, really. 

Louise (07:46.895) 

Yeah, you know what, I would agree with both of you as well. And something else that maybe brings those two together is there’s a lot more chat generally, proudly on LinkedIn and other spaces from outlanders saying, I experienced this burnout or this is how I look after myself or even talking about those issues that feed into mental wellness, such as working parenthood or being a carer, which I think has been really encouraging to see.  

Sue, as the person at the helm of mental wellness in our industry, what do you think we’ve done super well this year? 

Sue (08:20.0) 

I completely agree with Sarps and James that I think it’s less of a there’s one thing and more of a, I honestly think as the kids say, there’s been a vibe shift. Is that the right terminology? I think there has genuinely been a vibe shift. I think there’s been a sort of really big realisation and a tipping of the balance that, you know, with the level of exciting change in one respect, but also structural change that impacts people in another. 

Louise (08:33.38) 

Yep, Vibe shift, will go with that. 

Sue (08:49.566) 

Businesses have to lean in and they do, partly by supporting NABS and by what they do themselves. But there’s also been a slightly different conversation about how it is our collective responsibility for sure, I agree with Sarps.  

But you know what, you also have to do it yourself, I think. And I think I’ve been encouraged by businesses leaning in, we can still do better, but also people leaning into individual responsibility a bit in terms of either fundraising for NABS and individually saying, actually, I want to do my bit, but also sharing stories or strategies or ways they cope.  

Because I think we all know that, you know, there is no panacea, silver bullet, one size fits all approach to staying well, mentally well, in the same way as there isn’t for physical health. You know, sharing ideas, strategies, things that have worked for people means people have a menu of choice to learn and feel inspired from.  

And I think that sort of balance of not blaming each other, know, the business is not saying the people need to man up and the people not saying the businesses need to sort themselves out. It feels like that conversation seems to have got a little bit more positive and we all are leaning into ‘we’ve all got to do it’. 

Louise (09:57.361) 

So do you think that’s your key takeaway from this year when we’re thinking about how to support the mental wellness of our teams? Is it that sense of show and tell and discussing what’s worked for you that you think’s really key? 

Sue (10:11.518) 

Yeah, I do. I mean, I think you do have to show as well as tell for sure, but you have to do both. I think there’s something about just the rad… I mean, I sound like an American self-help book here, but just that radical acceptance of how hard this topic is sometimes, you know, and not feeling you’re being blamed for it as either an individual who’s struggling, or a leader who hasn’t got all the answers, or a business who’s started one thing, but it didn’t quite work and they need to do something else because this is hard stuff. And… 

Although, you know, I think we’ve all worked in the industry long enough to know that there’s lots of exciting things that happen when change comes. But, you know, it also does drive anxiety for people.  

And if you’re on that edge of excitement and positivity, when it is tipped into something harder and more chronic and more long term and it’s affecting your ability to cope, then it has to be OK to say, I need some help. 

And it is becoming more accepted, but it has to also be okay to say, I’m going to go over and do some work myself if I need to, but also, you know, hopefully my manager, business leader, NABS, the industry will also support me. And it has to be a, you know, I hate the word partnership, but it has to be a kind of honest partnership between all of us. I have to look after my own mental health. You know, it’s me who builds the strategies on how to cope with, you know, crap that comes my way in life and work.  

So, you know, but I also expect, and I’m really proud I work in an industry where it takes that topic seriously and there is always more we can learn and always more we can do. So I’m not saying we’re doing it perfectly by any stretch of the imagination but I feel like we’ve shifted into a slightly more radical, a more honest conversation I think. 

Michelle Sarpong (11:50.89) 

Yeah, I agree with everything you just said. I think it is about kind of the listening and providing that kind of safe space. I think that’s been really key because I think, you know, we’ve kind of been doing… some people are doing that buckets in terms of like listening to kind of certain individuals.  

But as you said, it’s a kind of partnership that we should all be, you know, listening and learning from each other and creating that safe space for people to actually feel comfortable sharing what they’re kind of going through. Then, you know, strategise, in terms of how we work through that together, individually, that there’s that kind of thread that we’re all taking away from all of our businesses and it’s a collective responsibility, hence why I love you know, working with NABS as well, because it’s not just on NABS to kind of provide that support. It’s kind of on all of us.  

And for all of us to do that, we need to first create that safe space, no judgements. I think before, you know, there’s a lot of stigma about mental health and the judgment that came with it. And I think, luckily enough, I think we’re moving away from that.  

But we still need to make sure that we are doing the work collectively in partnership across the whole industry. I might work for the7stars, but at the same time, you know, there’s other agencies I can learn from, from initiatives they’ve done to kind of help the collective. Cause it’s all about people, right? It’s not actually about the individual companies, it’s all about us as individuals, you know, making our way through this crazy time, this crazy world, this crazy life, right? Together. 

James White (13:14.926) 

Yeah. 

Louise (13:17.53) 

James, you’re kind of nodding away there and especially at the bit where Michelle said: “These crazy times and this crazy life.” Do you think there’s been something particular about this year, where maybe your key takeaway about how to support your team’s mental wellness might be different or have shifted a bit? 

James White (13:35.459) 

Yeah, I think so. I mean, sounds slightly cliche and obvious, but the best businesses, you know, recognise that support and put people at the heart of their business. That’s like a non-negotiable. When we think about culture, an old coach of mine always said, pragmatically, it means how do things get done around here? And nothing gets done, to Sarps’s point, about people.  

We’re in that transitional AI phase where there’s continued automation, but humans will always be on and always continue to evolve. And I think that that sounds obvious, but let’s put people at the heart of what we do.  

And I think to your point, Louise, certainly this time of year, everyone’s chasing Q4 targets or Q4 pitches or pitch outcomes. You know, it’s really busy. And I think that again, the good businesses step back and say, guys, make sure you look after yourselves, take some time because it can become very all encompassing.  

So I think it is exactly what Sue and Sarps said, it, it opens a call that out.  

I work for a global business now, which is different for me, for the majority of my career I haven’t. I think that having confidential Slack channels, having a safe space and having that forum publicly that is always on, just reminds people that actually, yeah, you’ve got your network, yeah, you’ve got people to go to, but in business, there are people there amongst the people team and amongst a safe space.  

If things are not right or you feel slightly overwhelmed, then reach out. As we know, as Sue’s implied, you know, it’s that first step, isn’t it? And I think having that first step of going, it’s okay to not be okay. I think that’s all important. long-winded way of saying, think you’ve got to put people at the heart of your business and that’s a non-negotiable. 

Louise (15:18.502) 

100%. I’m really interested in the confidential Slack channels. Do you find that’s where people go to first if they want to open up about something? 

James White (15:25.9) 

Well, I mean, because they’re confidential, I wouldn’t know that. I do know, I do know that. Well, it’s not something I’ve experienced before. And in the nine months I’ve been at Seedtag, I definitely know it works. And I think we’ve had, you know, the chief people officer talking about how well it’s been received. I think that’s not just that. That’s in addition to everything else we’ve talked about.  

But I think that that is almost publicly saying this is there for you. And I think that’s really important because five, 10 years ago, these measures were not in place. And you probably were down the pub or, you know, in a coffee shop or wherever, just going, can we have a quick chat? And that needs to happen. But I think the more companies make things more official or make things more confidential and say, hey, we’re here for you, the better it is for everyone. 

Louise (16:15.502) 

Now, both James and Michelle are absolutely brilliant because they are part of our donor community. And this year we’ve been celebrating our donors, the ones who power NABS purpose with the Yay List, which is this year’s industry list to be on.  

So we’re going to reveal the full Yay List in Campaign on 10 December, but this is a sneak peek at two of our brilliant winners here.  

Now you’re both such good advocates for NABSas well as being mental wellness leaders in your own organisations, you’re making sure that the rest of the industry can benefit from that passion and that dedication that you have to the cause. So thank you.  

So it’d really great to hear a bit about why you support NABS. Because there are so many charities out there. Why NABS? And what kinds of things are you doing in your organisations doing to support us? Michelle, why don’t you start? 

Michelle Sarpong (17:07.614) 

So why support NABS? Because I guess we’ve touched on it, the wellbeing of people is really, really important. And actually the work that the NABS team do, Sue, it’s brilliant, right? And I know people throughout my whole career that have used the service and it’s been invaluable to them.  

And I guess how I’ve actually had a very long journey with NABS. I was one of the kind of buyers that Charlie Parkin used to call individually to check if we’ve got a pledge for her to secure, which was a great effective way, because basically when she used to call and I didn’t have a pledge, I’d ignore her call and then find her a pledge and then wait for her to call back and tell her. Don’t worry, Charlie, we’ve sorted one out.  

So I’ve been kind of like supporting NABS from that level to now working at the7stars, where we’ve actually kind of become part of the securing the pledges as a whole agency, which has been amazing. I think actually for us, it was one of those things where like actually we wanted to support in any way we can. Also part of the activation and trading elements.  

We’re talking to new partners like every day and actually directing them to NABS as well. Just going, do you guys pledge, do you kind of support them, and kind of grill them in that way. Because I think it’s all of our responsibilities collectively to have that conversation. It’s not just down to Sue, Lily and the team. It’s up to all of us because it’s for the good of the of the industry and our agencies individually. So that’s kind of how we support NABS in any way. And obviously any events, I shall be there too. 

James White (18:35.985) 

Ha. 

Louise (18:36.23) 

What kind of NABS events tickle your fancy? 

Sarps (18:39.496) 

Stranger than Summer, I mean, that is a great event, isn’t it? You see it, it’s basically, I treat it like my wedding, even though I’ve never been married. I just walk around and just say hello to everyone. It’s everyone, everyone who’s ever one’s there. It’s a really great event. It’s really good fun. And everyone’s just in good spirits as well.  

And actually, to be fair, there’s quite a good piece of like actually seeing the actual impact of NABS on real people. And actually some of those videos really bring home the stuff that people do. It gives everyone a sense of like rewards. So like when you’re obviously fulfilling those pledges, battling with those media owners, when you then see the results of like how it’s actively affected and changed someone’s life, that’s like, that’s invaluable. You can’t buy that experience. So yeah, I’ll say Stranger than Summer is my favourite event. 

Sue (19:21.406) 

I love that you’re having an annual wedding. 

Michelle Sarpong (19:23.655) 

No, exactly. Why not though? Why not? No divorces in my life. 

Louise (19:29.398) 

Does the average wedding cost quite a lot of money? If anything, we’re doing you a favour. 

Sarps (19:33.342) 

You are actually, just needed the husband though to help me with that. So see you, I’ll talk to you about that later. 

Louise (19:37.863) 

We’ll see what we can do with next year’s guest list. So for those of you that don’t know, Stranger Than Summer is NABS’ annual summer massive party. It is very famous in the industry and we have around 800 people each year coming just to party. We’ll eat, we’ll drink, we’ll dance. And the video that Michelle was just referring to is like you would at many charity events.  

We have a video where we showcase one or two people that we’ve helped that year so that people can really understand what they’re giving their money towards. And I’m very happy you highlighted the video, Michelle, because that’s one of my major projects during the year. thank you very much. James. thank you. So James, talk us through how you’re supporting NABS and why, what’s driving you. 

James White (20:22.508) 

Well, firstly, I just want to jump back to Sarpsey’s point when she emails to close down the pledge, I think most people make sure it jumps to the top of the to do list. I think just to endorse your continued support of NABS is a good thing, because you don’t want the wrath of Sarpsey, that’s for sure.  

In a good way, I think that I’ve always wherever I’ve been, always seen myself as an ambassador for NABS, because I think that Sarpsey has said a lot of this, but certainly the last sort of… it’s only the last three years as well. There’s so many great people at work or people that need help.  

And just to sort of plug a few things that just continue to astound me really, the NABS Advice Line, I think last year was over 5,000 calls coming in. And when you think about the resource that NASB have, it just blows my mind that they’re able to cope with that and actually give back and do good. And I think that just needs to be remembered. So Sue and the team do a wonderful job with fairly limited resources. 

And we’ve touched on, we’ve touched on Stranger than Summer, I didn’t realise I was going to Sarpsey’s wedding. So that’s always good to know. I think beyond that, the other things are actually things that get forgotten. Like the work you did to identify that, that managers needed support, that Managers’ Mindsets training is really important. Cause I think that it seems obvious, but if you crack the managers and you give them all the tools and upskill them in how to cope with teams and it benefits everyone. So I that was really, really great. 

So yeah, and then there’s great workshops. I think there’s, for the team, think it’s having an always on relationship and partnership. It just reminds everyone that there’s so much more and it is actually talking about Strangely Summer, but it’s much more than that. I think that’s the bit that I’ve always made sure that the team are aware of. Yeah, long may it continue. It’s a non-negotiable for me and I’d hope that many more businesses continue to support. 

Louise (22:15.91) 

Well, there’s so much to pick up on there, Sue. mean, as NABS’ CEO and overseeing everything we do, you can tell us how tangible that support is. And if we didn’t have people like James and Michelle, we wouldn’t be able to accommodate those 5,200 calls to the Advice Line. We wouldn’t even be able to put on Stranger than Summer. What are you thinking of that we’ve achieved this year that we’re really proud of and we have only been able to do because of our donor community? 

Sue (22:43.914) 

Look, the fundamental reason why the donors and what James and Sarps are referring to is so fundamental is because it’s two thirds of our funding and it’s set at the beginning of the year. And if it’s more or less guaranteed for the next 12 months, then that is the backbone of how NABS is able to ensure that it has the service provision in place to not turn away any of the 5,200 people who ring the Advice Line and find the right level of support for them. 

You can’t get away from the fact, and I think that’s the reason we sort of felt the Yay List was so important, from saying that an upfront donation that’s converted effectively by the7Stars and a couple of other agencies means we guarantee the service provision. So that is fundamental.  

But equally important, I think, is what James and Sarps both represent brilliantly, is advocacy. Because the way that we spread the word both to make sure anyone who needs the service knows about it, because that’s fundamentally important that everyone in the industry knows there is something available for them when they need help, but also to activate other businesses or individuals to lean into, is through advocacy, because there’s only you know so much as Sarps says that we can probably do ourselves in terms of shouting about NABS and driving awareness and NABS and understanding NABS.  

So you know inspiring other people and other businesses to say we should also do something we should also donate, we should also raise money ourselves, we should also as an individual or as a business lean in a bit harder is huge.  

So, it’s not to be underestimated that the money matters because it means it’s the backbone of service provision, but the advocacy and the ambassadorial role that people like James and Sarps play is massive too, because it’s spreading the word and inspiring others is, you know, is essentially marketing for NABS to get other people to raise money and do stuff too. 

Louise (24:29.708) 

Absolutely. And it means that the people in your organisation will find out how they can benefit from NASB as well. James, when you talk to people about workshops and they go on them, what kind of feedback do you get? 

James White (24:40.374) 

Well, it’s life-changing without being too dramatic for some people. I think there’s, you see a lot of it in the video content and that show every year, but I think there’s so many. That’s the other thing. There’s so many great workshops. And I think that people I know that have gone on them, first of all, some of them didn’t know they existed a few years ago. And I think that’s been the step change within NABs and making it so specific and outcome focused is a real, real great thing that the team do. So yeah, hugely, hugely beneficial. 

Michelle Sarpong (25:12.254) 

I think even like, I was literally about to jump in and say that actually, because I think what I’ve been a mentor a couple of times actually for NABS, I’ve loved, honestly, it’s such a rewarding thing to do to give back, especially now I’ve noticed that a lot more people are coming from further afield from like the traditional advertising and marketing industry.  

There was someone who works in like production for like a TV company, which was amazing to have a conversation about them and what they’re kind of going through and the support that they need. So I think those kind of sessions are very invaluable to everyone that kind of joins. And I think well done for labs and the team to put that on because that is one of those things that people might not be getting that support in-house with their teams and their their organisations, but by you guys putting that kind of, know, event on is allowing people to get support in a different way, which is invaluable in itself. So yeah, it’s fantastic. So well done to you guys. 

Louise (26:09.508) 

What Michelle is referring to is our speed mentoring events, which we typically run once, twice a year. So we’ll have a group of fabulous mentors and then they will each have a group of people. So it’s almost like group therapy, but in a mentoring format. So that means you get to hear everybody else’s questions and you kind of hunt as a pack as it were. So they might be asking something you were thinking, which gives you then the space to ask something else and you bounce off each other. And Sue is the atmosphere at those events not completely electric? 

 

Sue (26:38.61) 

Yeah, totally inspiring, I think, you know, it’s an overused term, but you do come away completely inspired because and there’s something, you know, sometimes people do need individual support, course, and confidential support. And that’s one of the massive pluses of that it’s confidential and impartial. And that’s why people, despite their own businesses, having brilliant support as well, sometimes still come to NAPS because they want to go outside. But the collective work we do, people in a room as you’ve described, to hearing each other’s questions and hearing the responses and ideas shared almost semi publicly in a group is also hugely important because, you know, often we think our challenge, our issue, whether it’s something from home or something at work, is it, you know, unique, no one’s ever experienced it before, it’s only happening to you. And I think sometimes just hearing somebody else say something similar that you’re thinking, or hear a response from a mentor like Sopps that you go, never thought of that. You know, even as mentors, you can learn from the other mentors because let’s be honest, none of us have got all the answers here. And, you know, how could we possibly have because things are changing all the time in terms of the challenges around us, but also how we’re responding to them as human beings. We’re not static either. even if you it now for the first 40 years, you might not have it now for the next 40. So, you know, listen and learn is my kind of advice. And that’s why I love NABS so much because of that balance of individual support, but collective learning as well. 

Louise (27:59.387) 

Yeah, absolutely. 

Sarps (27:59.454) 

Yeah, and I guess it’s really good at driving that network and community feel and collaboration because you actually do make a lot of new friends from it or new contacts that, again, post that session, you can kind of continue to support each other in different ways. It might not just be around like us as management, but it could be in like they’re looking for roles, et cetera. So it just it goes beyond and just that one session, which that’s what I love about it. And I keep coming back to do more. 

Louise (28:27.588) 

You’ve hit on something there, that notion of community, which certainly I’ve seen us really dial down on since Sue joined us. Not just because Sue is a massive people person, but also because we can see the data shows the value in community regarding mental wellness. 

Louise (28:49.914) 

James, what do you get out of seeing the wider community come together? 

 

James White (28:54.19) 

Well, think think so. It’s just covered a lot of it, but I do. I will back you on that. I Sue’s been transformational for the business and for the charity. And all of these great tactical measures weren’t in place previously. So I think that it’s it’s come out a really important time without stating the obvious. And I think that collective understanding that it’s in NABS is more than more than just a couple of parties a year, you know, without sounding crude. You know, it’s much more than that. It’s always on. And I think that yeah, community is something that we all endorse in our own personal lives as well as in business. And I think that the networking is really important, actually, so I agree with you on that, because I think that people turn up at these events well. They have fun, of course, they donate, they give them back. they’re improving your network. mean, you’re probably like the best at doing that. So I think maybe then they wonder you’re a mentor. But yeah, I think it’s think it’s extraordinary work. And I think that, again, shine the light on people that think it’s just a couple of events, it’s so much more than that. That’s something I would want to get across today, really. 

Michelle Sarpong (29:56.552) 

Yeah, and I guess it’ll be really good in terms of like actually for people to know the breadth of stuff that you actually do. There is literally something for everyone to get involved in. I think that’s what you’ve done brilliantly over the last couple of years. It’s actually, you you’ve got a golf day, you’ve got like a walking, cycling. There’s so many different things that people can get involved in different ways. So I think I commend you guys for that because actually it’s… or adapting to people’s needs and what people are generally interested in to build that community. So, yeah, well done to Sue and the team. 

Sue (30:26.714) 

Thank you. Thank you. I hear you. Thank you very much. That’s really nice to hear. But I’m going to go right back at you because the truth is that we’ve just facilitated more people leaning in in the industry as well, which I think is massive. You know, people like yourselves, but also, you know, it’s led to more people stepping up individually and saying, you know what, I could do something around my passion that would be good for my mental health, that I could also raise some money. So there’s been so much more individual kind of hands sticking up going on in the industry to say, I could also raise, mean, James Cornish at Vivo is a good example, who’s just started some crazy fitness challenge with 12 other people, 24 hour thing that I obviously, I don’t understand because that is not my vibe. But I’m pleased it’s other people’s and obviously I totally get the link between physical and mental health and applaud it. But, you know, there’s just more people coming to us, which is so rewarding, inspiring, encouraging because for me it means there’s more kind of advocacy going on and there’s more sense of collective responsibility which you know is genuinely inspiring because people want to help but I think we’ve got very I’ve always thought we had a very generous industry I haven’t worked in it for 25 years because I don’t think it’s full of really generous, kind, good people who get this stuff but you know it’s nice to see them leaning into support labs and by their full default you know people they don’t even know in other parts of the industry get that help. 

Louise (31:50.482) 

This is all very feel good and festive and rightly so. However, we must address not just Santa’s nice list, but also Santa’s naughty list, I’m afraid. Now the Yay List is obviously the nice list and everything you all just been talking about is brilliant. Goodwill to the whole community. However, where there is nice, there is naughty. Believe it or not, there are organizations in our industry who are not donating to NABS. So how can we get them on the nice list and save their Christmas. 

James White (32:22.178) 

Big question. Should I jump in there?  

Louise (32:24.113) 

Please. 

Michelle Sarpong (32:25.15) 

I think you used to start. You’ve been on many naughty lists in your past, haven’t you, Whitey? You take us on a journey. Take us on journey. 

James White (32:29.006) 

Yeah, Louise, that’s just misinformation. one for the one. No, I think I think for me as a as a parent, let me start there. This is a time of year where if you ask my two daughters that do they want to be on the naughty list? Absolutely not. I think I think parents have probably the easiest time now with best in class bribery and I think that’s that’s quite easy for a parent, but I think the same can be the case for media businesses, why on earth would you not want to be on the Yay List when you’re showcasing to your people, to your staff that work tirelessly for you, that you’re putting mental wellness at the heart of what you do to help the businesses and the industry move forward, which is essentially NABS’ mission. So I think it’s just, again, it’s a no-brainer. I think taking my buyer’s hat off just quickly, think tactically, 

Maybe there are some other businesses that can help. mean, the Jan sales around the window. So if there’s Media Leader, Campaign, DigiDays, businesses that want to give up some space and showcase what NABS do, I think that’s great. And then lastly, actually, I’m always really moved by the brilliant videos at all the events. And I think that that actually Sue can go further. And I think that as, as a collective industry, we should think about ways that we can, whether it’s old school intranets or platforms or our own businesses or however we do it, we should make sure that’s always on because you make a difference. And I think that that needs to come through. So yeah, it’s obvious for me to be on the A-list. I’m proud to be on there as in my new business, but I think that, yeah, don’t ruin Christmas guys, get on the Yay LIst. 

 

Sue (34:14.884) 

Yeah, I mean, I think I’ll be slightly more generous and say, you know, I think not everybody knows enough about NABS. So, you know, the continued marketing advocacy, exactly what James has just expressed and suggested, you know, more widespread sharing of the difference we make, the impact we have, and that’s on us and, you know, people who also know us to continue to spread the word for sure.  

So I’m going to say some people don’t know us and, you know, we have to get to them and persuade them and that’s all part of, know, that’s essentially my job. there are different, businesses have different structures and ways that they can help. So my question is always just look, if you can’t do a straightforward donation, which is huge, as I said earlier, because it’s the kind of way we guarantee income and provide the backbone of the service, then talk to us about whether there’s another way that you could lean in. 

Either raising money yourselves or coming up with an idea that hits one of your business objectives in terms of getting your suppliers or partners or customers together at an event and having an element of fundraising tied into it and then that becoming the donation back to NABS, because we get that every business has different pressures and we get that everyone’s structures don’t enable the same type of fundraising necessarily. So talk to us, we’d love to help with more innovative ways to… you know, help the industry. So yeah, I’m going to say if you’re still on that naughty list, you know, maybe it’s too late for this year, but 2026, you can certainly make the switch. 

Louise (35:49.713) 

Michelle, what do you think? How can people be less grinch and more festive and yay less next year? 

Michelle Sarpong (35:57.284) 

I feel like Sue and Whitey covered everything, but I think sometimes just throw cash at the problem. Cash is king, guys. Just throw cash at the problem. But sorry, in all honesty, I think we have to be… We’re back there, guys. We’re back there. I think Whitey touched on a really good point earlier when he talked about the use of NABS’ services. Like, that has grown. We can’t get away from the fact that it has grown exponentially over the last, what, five years. 

James White (36:07.074) 

Your wedding again. 

Michelle Sarpong (36:23.954) 

And obviously that does cost money. So I think we need to be realistic in terms of like organisations like NABS to keep them at the heart of our kind of like industry and keep them going. We kind of have to support them. And one of the ways is cash. Cash, whether it’s like the pledges, it doesn’t have to be much either. I think people look at things and think it has to be a massive amount. Like every little helps. I think that’s a key thing to note as well.  

And as Sue touched upon, there’s different people doing it, individual things to kind of raise money. could be anything. And I think the guys are really open to those kinds of conversations.  

Also, think also look to, I know people aren’t aware of all the stuff that NABs do, but look to the services that NABS provide. At the7stars, we kind of use this counselling service where, you know, a NABS counsellor comes in every month to kind of like, you know, be there to kind of support our teams, just someone who’s slightly outside the building. So it’s that safe space, confidentially, that people can go to to seek help if they should need it.  

So I think looking at all of the NABS services in terms of like actually looking at them first support and how you can support in that way as well as just coming up with kind of different ideas. We can’t get away from the fact that you know we’re living in kind of scary times in the advertising world, like you know, the industry is getting and the landscape is getting smaller.  

There’s a lot of consolidation happening, companies not even surviving some of these changes in the market so people are going to need more help than ever, so anything you can do please just lean in or ask one of us who’s on the Yay List, which is a spoiler alert but thank you very much, I love it. Ask any of us and we can have happily support the team and give you ideas of different things you can do but remember, I’m a trader, cash is king guys. 

Louise (38:04.337) 

There are no excuses. There, literally every possible way you could support NABS was just listed there. So do get involved. now we’re in the festive season. It’s a lot of fun, but it’s also a lot of crazy. As you said before, James, people try and hit their targets before they skip off for the year. There’s also all of the parties to attend and then you’ve got your family and friends wanting to see you as well. What’s your top tip for supporting yourself through the festive season? James, let’s start with you. 

James White (38:36.32) 

Yeah, sure. mean, I’m just going to go back to the elephant in the room, which was the shameless North London Derby plug for. So I am Spurs fan, so for any Spurs fans out there, just just don’t watch any football over their festive period. That’s a good place to start. But but no, no, it is like it’s it is that time of year, lots of plate spinning. It can be very overwhelming at times.  

So I think my top tip would be turn up well. Say no to some events because that’s okay. Pressing pause during December is equally as important as pressing pause when you’ve shut down. So don’t crash into Christmas. Put yourself first. And again, those businesses that, you know, promote that are the good ones, you know, that you cannot go to everything. I mean, I think maybe Sarps is the exception. But no, I think make sure you look after yourself and slow things down. And I guess if you want a catch ine, it’s reset, it’s refresh yourself and rethink things for the year. think, yeah, don’t let it become just a in between Christmas and January thing. Look after yourselves now. 

Louise (39:52.295) 

Yeah, absolutely. Michelle, are you really going to go to every party? How are you going to support yourself through that? 

Michelle Sarpong (39:59.07) 

That’s it just because actually, I mean, I agree with everything Whitey said, but actually it’s also it’s okay to leave things early. So I think that’s the thing. I think sometimes when we go to certain events, we’re like, we have to be there to the end. I mean, I can’t talk two weeks ago. I was out till 1 and 2am the day after each other, but that was a blip. I’m back in the room now.  

But I think it’s okay to actually just go somewhere and just go say hi, have a quick drink or non-alcoholic drink and then leave. I think that’s okay. think sometimes there’s pressure to actually do all things you know, at the same time, but it’s okay just to pass by. I people appreciate you there at least for five minutes, 10 minutes. That’s okay. That’s not looked on negatively, but I agree with Whitey. I think it’s okay to say no.  

Take the time that you need as well. Because I think, you know, it’s a long festive season and actually we’ve got work pressures. We’ve got like individual pressures, we’ve got family pressures. I think just always take a minute and just go, actually, do I really want to do this? Will this make me happy? and then make that decision.  

And I’m going to reach out to all the Arsenal fans and say, football’s good right now, carry on watching Arsenal playing and beat the London Spurs. But four one, four one is what I’m going to say.  

But I think do the things that you enjoy. think like, you know, we’ll talk about football, but I think like going to the gym, taking that time out. If you need a flexible working kind of request, put that in. I think do what’s right for you and actually do the things that you do enjoy. Because I think, you know, let’s not forget that, you know. 

James White (41:03.854) 

Merry Christmas, guys. Merry Christmas. 

Michelle Sarpong (41:23.93) 

Life is for living, let’s do the things that we like. So yeah, that’s my advice. 

James White (41:29.858) 

Yeah. 

 

Sarps (41:42.544) 

James White (42:15.232) 

I agree. 

Louise (42:15.239) 

Very sensible. Sue’s nodding along there and I know she agrees with you because before we hopped on she was talking about her strategy for maximising parties for three hours and then going home. Weren’t you Sue? 

Sue (42:26.058) 

I was, I was. mean, I’m the oldest on this call, but not necessarily the wisest. But yeah, I think I’m finally realising in my latter part of my career and life probably that, you know, the three drink rule, the three hour rule is probably a good one to live by, particularly this time of year. know, in the first three hours, and if you do drink, in my case, for the first three tequilas, you probably have a really great time. And hours and drinks, four, five and six, not so good.  

Leaving after three or one or three minutes, whatever Sarps says is appropriate and you feel you can do, or not going at all is absolutely fine. For me personally, it’s the three hours, three drink rule. 

Louise (43:07.239) 

Very sensible. I’m the most vanilla person on this call. I’m like one chocolate milk and then home to bed with a good book. Merry Christmas, I don’t think. I am so Mick Jagger. Now we have come to the end of this podcast. It’s gone super quickly. It’s been so enjoyable. As we look forward to Christmas and to a brand new 2026, what is your… 

James White (43:16.632) 

Very good. 

Sue (43:17.497) 

That’s how it’s rock and roll, really. 

Louise (43:36.859) 

…festive message for the industry? Michelle. 

Michelle Sarpong (43:41.79) 

So my festive message for the industry is – it’s been a tough old year for everyone. think there’s been lots of conversations around consolidation. We’ve seen a lot of restructures happen in the market, more to come in the new year. There’s all talks about AI taking over all of our jobs. There’s a lot of things that’s going on that’s quite worrying. But I think if we just remember to keep talking, keep leaning on each other, and get through this festive holiday and get our well-earned rest, we’ll be ready to go again for 2026 and hit all those challenges head on. 

 

Louise (44:14.947) 

Exactly, James. 

James White (44:16.169) 

Yeah, think I mean, just to round off, think it’s less time on your phone, look up more. And just going back to the theme that we touched on earlier, I think it’s just when you’re a bad day, there are people around you and check in with people. think that’s something that I try to do. I try to have a free person rule every week where I haven’t spoken to someone, even if it’s WhatsApp, just just reach out. How are you doing? I think that’s something that I also appreciate the other way around. 

But I think for now, for the festive period,  think rest, reflect and then reboot. We go again. 

Louise (44:53.753) 

Absolutely and Sue, what’s your festive message? 

Sue (44:56.992) 

I mean, think it’s more than just a Christmas, but I think it has a particular resonance at this time of year. I suppose my message is more generosity, less judgment. And I don’t mean generosity in terms of presents and drinks and parties and all those things, although sometimes they’re nice too. I just mean generosity to, you know, your fellow man, your fellow coworker, your fellow colleague. You never know what’s going on in people’s lives, heads, that day, that morning, that week. 

And I think, you know, to build on the points that everyone else has made about pausing and reflecting, sometimes you’ve got to pause and reflect so that you can remember that because we’re all running at 100 miles an hour.  

So, yeah, just a little bit more generosity and less judgment is what I’m trying to live by myself. Not necessarily doing it perfectly, but, you know, trying to have that word with myself every day and just, you know, take a little bit of time to reflect, pause and try and make that the way that I show up at work. 

Louise (45:53.575) 

Well, I hope this festive season brings you all that you’ve wished for the industry and more, and that you all get a chance to rest, chill, look after yourself, establish a sensible drinking and eating pattern, and come back refreshed for 2026. So thank you so much for joining me. And also, if you have been listening to the NABS podcast throughout the year, then thank you so much for your support and for sharing the pod. And it’s been absolutely brilliant to have you along as part of our listener community. 

 

We look forward to more conversations next year. In the meantime, Michelle, James, Sue, thank you so much for being absolutely fabulous, both as people and supporters slash leaders of NABS. 

Sue (46:33.652) 

Thank you. Thanks everyone. Happy Christmas. 

James White (46:33.742) 

Thanks for having me. 

Louise (46:36.315) 

Thank you, happy Christmas. 

Michelle Sarpong (46:38.878) 

Thanks guys!