Episode 21: How art and creativity can support your mental wellness

Louise (00:01.852)

Welcome to the NABS podcast. NABS is the support organization for those working in advertising, marketing and media. I’m your host, Louise Scodie. Each week I’ll be chatting with someone from our industry to find out how they support themselves and those around them through challenging times as well as the day to day. And it’s all to help you support your own mental wellness. I can’t wait to start chatting. This week our guest is Jade Tomlin.

Jade is executive creative director at Huge, a design and innovation company based in London and New York. A graduate of St. Martin’s, Jade describes herself as a creative adventurer. She’s worked on brands from Sony to Starbucks and also runs Creative Adventures, where she supports founders and entrepreneurs. Jade’s been on industry lists including Campaign Faces to Watch and 30 Future Female Leaders. And she’s also a judge and mentor across a host of industry networks

Jade is also one of the driving forces behind the NABS Art Auction, where we are auctioning off adlanders’ artwork across the country, all to raise funds for NABS. To find out more and to submit your artwork by 9 September, visit nabs.org.uk/artauction.

And someone who’s extremely artistic herself, Jade. Hello, welcome. How are you today?

Jade (01:21.27)

And good, thank you. So lovely to be on the show. Thanks for having me.

Louise (01:27.07)

Our pleasure and you and I had a chat before the pod, and I can’t remember the word you used to describe your story, the good version of complex, like there’s loads to it and we had to decide what to drill down on, and that’s what we’re going to do now so let’s go straight in. What challenges have you faced with your own mental wellness journey?

Jade (01:54.55)

Yes, yeah, I think the word we were talking about was maybe intersects. So I think everyone has different layers to them, almost like an onion, you just have like multiple layers as you go through life. And particularly those who are, yeah, creatively minded, we have a lot of different complexities that we have fun with, I would like to say, for the most part.

But yeah, at times it can get difficult. I think for me, one of, yeah, there’s lots of lovely liberating moments with being LGBT. But I think for me, looking back personally on my journey, I think at the beginning of my career, you know, it’s such an exciting time, you know, you’ve got kind of get your first job and you’re excited about, you know, multiple different things.

And you know, there’s also the realisation for many. I mean, I think things have gotten a bit better, but I think there’s still a lot of people who are maybe closeted at school and, you know, things that bubble up like politically at the moment, can really affect how open people are with their sexuality. I mean, just looking at the trans community, they’ve really going through the motions. So many of my friends have been speaking out on Instagram, but yeah, so for me, I was closeted for majority of high school and weirdly even art school. I’m not really sure why I did that. But so when I reached sort of early twenties and yeah, literally when I got my first job, it was like being, you know, a teenage boy or something and there’s like these two polar opposite sides of my life just being like very, very exciting.

Louise (03:42.354)

The hormones plus fun on tap.

Jade (03:53.612)

And yeah, going out late and my creative partner was as wild as me. And we were just like, yeah, juggling a lot, I think. And so, yeah, and your wellbeing is part of that. And I think we have to sleep a little bit like better and you need to try and get into good habits and be a bit disciplined in order to survive the industry, which is very competitive. So you can’t, you know, completely go too wild. I think, yeah, that split of work-life balance at the beginning for me was a real challenge.

The other thing, slightly challenging, and I know that many in the industry have talked about this, know, CCOs like Vicky Macguire. Coming from a working class background is another intersect. I was lucky enough to go to quite a nice posh school in Harpenden, but I grew up in Luton. So I think professional etiquette, it took me a little while to grasp that and feel comfortable. yeah, and Vicki Macguire talks about it really well.

Like, you know, when you go to a fancy restaurant with a client and you’re just like, I cannot read the menu and I’m going to have to say something and I need to sound confident. it’s like little, yeah, I’d say like you can experience micro stresses that actually, you know, looking back, actually, it’s quite a big challenge to overcome. so yeah, think those, those two would be my main ones.

Louise (06:35.666)

There is so much I want to ask you. Where to start? So the first thing that is interesting is that you actually did feel comfortable to come out in the industry and it sounds as though that’s the first time you were speaking publicly about your sexuality.

Jade (06:51.264)

Yes, yeah, yeah, it was, yeah, my first agency was a very warm, friendly culture work club. So I was very fortunate there. I had very good creative directors, Andy Sandos and Ben Muge. So, yeah, and there was people in the office who were gay and, you know, meeting them for the first time and, you know, knowing where to go out and all that sort of stuff. just, it all came when I, yeah, had my first job, I think.

Louise (07:21.874)

And then you were going out, enjoying all of the treats on offer and really revelling in actually being able to be your whole self. But that then bringing some mental wellness challenges. So what did those mental wellness challenges look like for you?

Jade (07:41.4)

It’s just like the, you know, the, the usual things that a teenager would go through. So, you know, going through heartbreak for the first time, but you’re doing that whilst being paid to turn up at a job and perform creatively. So you’re going through quite big emotional experiences, when you’re basically a professional or classed as that. I think, yeah, that was kind of the tricky balance.

Louise (08:14.524)

Do think that’s quite a common experience then? I know you said that less people are probably or hopefully in the closet until they start work these days than when you were starting out, but inevitably there will be some new entrants to the industry who’ve not been able to discuss their sexuality and then they do the same as you, they come out at work. So do you think it’s quite a common experience that they will be living their teenage years and having the same experience as you did and therefore is it something managers need to watch out for?

Jade (08:47.611)

Yeah, I think so. I think there’s a lot of, mean, people talk quite badly about like, mention negative things about the fact that we’ve become almost like corporate entities, corporate agencies. But the benefit of that is there’s a lot of support networks. For example, if you’re a big agency, you will be tapped into NABS, for example, but there’ll be other things that people can lean on, whether it’s literally reports that the agency itself has written to help people.

And so I think, yeah, it’s easy for managers really to sort of triage that and pay attention to what the team might be feeling and going through. I think, you know, even if you’re heterosexual, may, you know, you’re not necessarily going to be married in your twenties. And so you might be going through difficult relationships, I think, you know, definitely in the creative department that could affect your flow and you may need a week where you’re kind of a little bit less in the hot seat. And yeah, I don’t love the analogy of football players and things, but you can see like, yeah, if it was a famous footballer who was going through his own thing, the manager would be aware, they would know. So why wouldn’t we know in an agency context?

I feel like, you know, we should, we should be able to, yeah, be there for the team, and be aware of what a little bit of they’re going through personally. And obviously it’s all subjective, it’s up to the individual how much they want to lean on their manager. They might have really good friends or they might have a really strong relationship with their parents.

I would say through my experience and with the teams that I’ve managed, I’ve definitely ended up having a bond where it feels like we can be honest with one another and work through anything. Because at the end of the day, you’re here because you’re talented and everyone goes through personal struggles and as a team, we work through that together.

Louise (11:05.246)

I want to talk a bit more about that. But first, I’m wondering how this then works if you come from a working class background and you have the experiences that you described. And I thought that was such a good example. How do you, did you go about communicating or even did you manage to communicate to a manager or someone who could help you that actually you were having problems navigating the sides of life that you hadn’t been exposed to. And then what would be your advice for anyone who’s maybe managing someone in that position and perhaps they haven’t said anything and it’s, I imagine this is quite a tricky thing to address.

Jade (11:49.838)

Yeah, it is tricky. Equally, it’s up to the individual how much they’re willing to share. You know, at the end of the day, if they, if they kind of retreat, unfortunately, sometimes like everything can get too much and maybe they just go traveling and then you don’t see them again. And you know, we don’t want to lose talent in that way necessarily, just because they didn’t get the right support.

But I think in my situation, ended up, I was lucky that I had really good friends in the agency so I could talk to them about it. And yeah, I think maybe, you know, if there was a patch of time where it needed like a moment, I felt comfortable enough to speak to my managers, so yeah, I hope that that still exists in other agencies. And I think definitely the startup ones, there is a stronger sense of family, cause there needs to be, cause the pressure is high. But yeah, I think there needs to be that space for that level of connection and bond even in the bigger agencies.

And managers shouldn’t be fearful to go there. And I feel like it is actually part of your duty as a manager to kind of make sure the wellbeing of the team is being met and they’re getting what they need.

Louise (13:24.798)

Well, we’ve found from our All Ears community consultation, which we conducted in October 23, that 40% of the people that we spoke to would go to their line manager first if they had a mental wellness issue that they needed some support with. But equally, there’s a large amount of people who still don’t feel able to discuss what’s going on for them, coupled with the fact that managers don’t feel that they’ve got the right toolkit to hold those safe spaces for people, which is why we’re rolling out a whole Managers Mindsets programme in order to give people the skills they need to turn empathy into supportive action. And you were telling me a bit about your recent role because you’ve stepped up even higher up the ranks and you’re a very senior leader now. And you said that within a couple of days, people were telling you all manner of things about themselves that you just weren’t necessarily expecting.

Jade (14:19.852)

Yeah, I think it’s an interesting time and I think post -COVID, in a weird way, I think it’s made us closer as people because we just went through something really quite dramatic. And so I think, yeah, people at times can feel like, yeah, they can be open with personal information at any point.

But what I would say is like, yeah, as you get more senior, there’s, I guess maybe it goes back to the professional etiquette and knowing when is the right moment, to share things and, the right format, you know, booking in time with your manager and putting it in the agenda, that is something, you know, personally we to talk about is probably the best way. Everyone is so busy and, you know, people want to do the right thing and, you know, be there. But, yeah, there’s a level of needing to kind of do it in the right way. And yeah, and I think HR do as much as they can, you know, I feel like good agencies have a big team, or whether it’s like talent team, and they’re always very, very supportive and can make the right decisions and push people in the right directions to get the support they need.

Louise (15:54.268)

Yeah, I think there’s definitely support out there. And if you’re not getting it from your HR people, whatever reason, you can always come to NABS and we can give you some advice on who to speak to and how to approach those conversations. From the manager’s perspective, especially if you really are quite high up the ranks, are there any particular challenges that you’ve experienced?

Jade (16:21.188)

I think loneliness is something that’s come up a little bit. I think, yeah, particularly if you’re a young manager stepping into it for the first time, I think you’re so conscious of wanting to do the right thing, show that you’re coping, let alone flourishing.

And so you just don’t want to tell anyone when you’re struggling. You just want to kind of go, yeah, I’m doing it. It’s all good. But yeah, I was reading that like, yeah, campaign to end loneliness have reported an increase from 2 .6 million to 3 .3 million young people in the late 20s experiencing loneliness. So yeah, and I think with managers that they said there’s a rise of like 30%. Um, so I think it’s, yeah. And I think once you get a bit more experienced in it, if you can stick at it, um, you realise actually being vulnerable or being open is a, is a good thing.

And, um, you can speak to your peers and they’re likely to be going through the same thing, or maybe they’re a little bit more experienced than you and so they can offer advice and get you through a moment that can be particularly challenging. I love that. I think, you know, it’s a special part of the industry, particularly agency side, like the growth spurts that you experience and the leaps are, you know, phenomenal. You’ll look back at it, you know, in 20 years’ time, like Jesus, that was like really tough for me. And I went for it and it was wicked and I did it because, and then you’ll remember that I spoke to that team member or I spoke to the manager or, you know, I had this conversation with someone at NABS. Like it’s, it’s really special. it’s not for everyone.

Not everyone needs to be a manager. Some people love, the craft and things, but if it’s something that people are interested in, think, yeah being aware that first time managing, you know, going into a management role, of course it’s going to be tough because it’s your first time. but yeah, there are ways of, improving and getting good at it.

Louise (18:51.61)

A very growth mindset answer and all the more inspiring for it. It makes me think of a job I had years and years ago and we had a new manager for our team, and in the room where we were sitting we had our team and her, and she was even physically separated from us because she was sitting behind us and we were in a big four. A bit like a primary school set up, and I remember her saying to me that she felt really lonely in the job and she wasn’t someone who opens up that much.

But she did share that, I thought was really interesting. And I think in the fullness of time, she got to know other people who were on the same job level as her across the organisation. And that helped. And then she had kind of people to go out for lunch with and stuff, because she had come from somewhere that was super social. So she wasn’t used to this kind of being a school teacher type setup. So I guess you just have to find your networks more creatively, maybe, if you’re not on the same level as a whole load of other team members. Is that something that you’ve done?

Jade (19:47.49)

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I think you can easily find those networks within an organisation. Again, Slack is another amazing tool where you have multiple different communities that you can tap into. And yeah, I mean, the more we ask agencies what we need, if you need the training and you specifically know what kind you’re after, then yeah, raise a hand. Like what’s the worst that can happen? They just say no, you know, if they can, they will make the room to make it happen. I think also, yeah, not forgetting externally, you know, networks like she says are incredible and still thriving and sometimes it’s if you’re going through something that you don’t feel comfortable talking to your manager about, or someone within the agency, then yeah, use, the external networks, to, to support you.

The Other Box as well is amazing too.

Louise (20:49.266)

Yeah, they’re great. We know them. You said something really lovely before about your team or kind of being in it together when it comes to challenges. They’re open and you’re able to discuss things and this is something that you found from early on in your job. What’s your top tip for holding space for someone who’s telling you personal information as a manager, especially if it’s someone that you’ve just met and they offload, they share something with you?

Jade (21:18.892)

Yeah, I think, despite me saying it’s better when people block time, I would say my top tip would be to listen, be there, be present. Like, yeah, I think you just have to a hundred percent. it’s why we’re in the job to support people to, for ourselves to be like, do the best work of our lives, but also for the team. Like we’re here to make the team flourish and reach their potential. You know, people can walk through the door and be so, so talented, but if they can’t unlock that potential, it’s wasted time and money. Yeah, I’m a big believer of that. And so at any point, I’m always listening, first and foremost.

Louise (22:11.122)

You’re a really good person to speak to as well, I would imagine, because of your own experiences.

Jade (22:17.547)

Yeah, maybe, maybe, I don’t know. Hopefully.

Louise (22:21.96)

I get the sense that if I wanted to share something that I could, but maybe we’ll leave that for after the podcast. I’ve got a few problems to save up for you. Now you are rather wonderfully on the committee for NABS art auction. And this is our big auction. We hold it across the country where we take creative submissions of all formats. It doesn’t have to be a painting, although it can be. It can be a poem, can be a photograph, it can be a sculpture.

They’re taking them from adlanders all around the country. And again, you don’t have to be a creative to submit something. You could be working in the finance department, the marketing department, it doesn’t matter. We want to hear from you. So why are you involved with the event? And as a creative yourself, what can you tell us about your experience about the link between mental wellness and art?

Jade (23:12.3)

Hmm. I think for me, like when NABS mentioned it to me, I was just like, that sounds fun. That was my first thought. was like, that is really fun. I’ve not heard of anyone doing that before. Why wouldn’t we do an art auction? Like, you know, it’s inherently such a creative approach to fundraising.

I think for me it felt like a really fun thing and I think, yeah, getting involved in it, and the, the link it’s, I guess it comes from a place of, well, a quote springs to mind. I don’t know if you know this quote, but you need chaos within your soul to give birth to a dancing star. So I actually saw on a poster in Soho Farmhouse in the kitchen area there. Yeah, and I just really like, I struck a chord and I think many creatives and designers like will feel a sense of frustration or, you know, anger at times, like big emotions. And it’s like, how do we release that as an artistic pursuit?

Louise (24:15.537)

I love that.

Jade (24:37.43)

So yeah, I think the link for me between mental wellness and art is definitely our emotional drive and how we channel it. So in our auction, I feel like it’s absolutely perfect. And this year there’s no theme, so you could be feeling anything and just channel it. Piece of art.

Louise (24:55.422)

Yeah, we want as broad a range as possible really and there’s so much talent out there that we definitely want to hear from everyone.

Jade (25:05.664)

Yeah, and there’s some big hitters as Rosie Arnold’s done a piece, John Hegarty, Dave Bonaguri. Yeah, some really lovely pieces coming through, which is exciting.

Louise (25:18.11)

So you need to go to nabs.org.uk/artauction and you can find out more about how to submit. And there’s a long list of suggested categories for submissions as well to get you inspired. And you must do that by 9 September please. I understand that you have also submitted a piece to the option. Can you tell us about it?

Jade:

Yes. So we just launched creative adventures, issue four, which is Guardians of the green which is all about nature, protecting nature and the planet. And the cover we spent a lot of lots of time sort of debating conceptually how we convey nature in its current form, which is plan, it is not doing so well. But remaining hopeful because as a magazine, everything we do is is looking at the positives around entrepreneurs and modern founders. So you’ll see that there’s kind of like, a beauty of color that resonates. But actually, there’s quite like the dark areas within that cover. And so yeah, that will be within the auction this year.

Louise:

Right. Fabulous. We’ll link to that below.

Jade:
Yeah, and the illustrator was, Marcus. But yeah, I’ll send you the link to his name.

Louise:
Okay. Super, thank you very much.How does the advertising and marketing community lift you up?

Jade (25:41.238)

How does it lift me up? think, I think it’s just the people, like the people are just amazing. There’s just so many different walks of life. like I’ve met like hundreds of interesting, like intelligent, kind people that I’ve learned so much from. and even, yeah, like from the day I walked into the first studio to now walking into huge like that it’s still the people like are fascinating. So yeah, over the years, I’m so glad and feel very fortunate that that hasn’t changed. And it’s been a massive part of my growth journey. And I think I’ve learned so much from mainly the people. And so yeah, I hope that everyone continues to kind of like pay it forward and kind of keep lifting each other up, I suppose.

Louise (26:43.346)

Which is what you’re doing. think you’re paying it forward by being such an active listener for your team members and other people across the industry.

Jade (26:52.3)

Yeah, I mean, it’s a tough one with management because obviously you’ve got to pursue your own, you know, mini masterpieces as well as lifting, you know, and so that’s tough at times. But I think if you genuinely do care and you genuinely, you know, want to see people grow, you’ll hopefully just be able to navigate the two things equally, both important.

Louise (27:23.304)

This conversation has absolutely zipped by, which is astounding, really. We’re onto the last question. What’s the best lesson you’ve learned about how to support yourself? I think it’s not going out and going crazy and then going to work the next day, ad nauseam on repeat. Maybe that’s not the best way to support yourself.

Jade (27:46.252)

I was very lucky I share this. I found an incredible career coach, hopefully this will make a blush, Jill Major, in my 20s. Thank God she caught me in my 20s. And yeah, she’s given loads of incredible tips and advice over the years, but one that really has kind of stood the test of time, I suppose, would be the lesson around don’t care so much, which is quite contradictory.

Louise (28:17.498)

Interesting. Especially in our industry because creativity and perfection often go hand in hand. So how does don’t care so much actually play out in a way that you can still do yourself justice in your work?

Jade (28:34.272)

Yeah, so I think we, yeah, we obviously all care so much and you’re right. Like you feel it. I think everyone feels it from the creative department, but I think I see it now more as I’ve gotten older, like, my God, the account people really care. Like they write back at crazy hours. Like they are trying so hard to protect the work, obviously project management, I mean, they get so irritated, I think, with designers and creatives, but they care so much. Everyone cares. So I think there needs to be moments of lightness.

And so I think holding onto that quote is good. because they reach, it reaches a point at every pitch you’ve gunned it. You’ve done two weeks of like solid hours, just try, you know, try your best to do the best by the chosen concepts, perfecting, you know, every pixel to every sentence to every word, does everything work and then you just have to you know and then you rehearse like crazy like if you’re in the pitch room and you just like on fumes like literally the day before and that is the point in which you have to go right, I’m gonna care so much, I’m gonna get a good night’s sleep, and then in the morning I’m gonna go and perform. I think it’s a really important just slight moment to factor in.

Or equally if you’ve just been on, I mean, yeah, in my 20s, remember there’s like projects where I’d be working on, like some of it would be like six months. And I remember this one project I had, like, I feel it was like 21 mini scripts and so excited and we were going to be shooting with David Gandy and something happened. It was with, P&G and Dolce&Gabanna. One of the two just went, we’re not going to do it.

Louise (30:30.791)

No, no.

Jade (30:32.258)

And the shoot went. Honestly, it was like this black hole. It’s just like, you’re all, yeah, it’s painful. It’s a really painful industry in some regard, but you have to, I feel a statement like, just don’t care so much for a moment. Like just, this is the moment you just, you have to take holiday. You come back, you see a blank page again, you go again.

Louise (30:38.763)

And that’s so gutting.

Jade (31:02.028)

And then, you you’ll have a moment where something incredible happens and it lifts you up again. So yeah, I think that would probably be my best lesson and I still use it today.

Louise (31:16.44)

I’m going to see how I can use that at some point this week. And I will think of you as I do it. It’s a great note to end on. We’ll pop links in the show notes to many of the things that we’ve discussed today. In the meantime, Jade, you have been fabulous. Thank you so much. Thank you for your work on the art auction as well. And thank you for speaking with us today.